Larry Harmon

[g***@aol.com]

Possibly the worst thing to happen, if not the worst thing to happen,
to Laurel and Hardy..
the cartoon, the MONOPOLISING of the their names, their bowel
movements, their food,etc.,etc.
and there were rumors some years back about a new LAUREL AND HARDY
(their sons or something) new comedy movie? WIth whom? That guy who
was Stifler in American Pie (and Jack Black)? Ben Stiller and some fat
guy? By the way, why does everyone say Larry Harmon CREATED BOZO THE
CLOWN? Vance Colving and Al Liviingston in 1943 did.

[MJ]

Post by g***@aol.com
By the way, why does everyone say Larry Harmon CREATED BOZO THE
CLOWN?

Actually, officially no one buy's Harmon's claim anymore. He was
tossed out of the Clown Hall Of Fame (or whatever it is) for that
claim quite a while ago. Unfortunatly, as I was mentining in another
post about George Reeves the other day, it may be too late to change
history in an unofficial way. The lie that he created Bozo has been
stated so many times that most people probably think it's true.

-MJ

[Jim Beaver]

Post by MJ

Post by g***@aol.com
By the way, why does everyone say Larry Harmon CREATED BOZO THE
CLOWN?

Actually, officially no one buy's Harmon's claim anymore. He was
tossed out of the Clown Hall Of Fame (or whatever it is) for that
claim quite a while ago. Unfortunatly, as I was mentining in another
post about George Reeves the other day, it may be too late to change
history in an unofficial way. The lie that he created Bozo has been
stated so many times that most people probably think it's true.

Pretty good article on Bozo and Harmon's contributions (good and bad) to the
whole deal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bozo_the_Clown

Jim Beaver

[Jim Beaver]

Post by MJ

Post by g***@aol.com
By the way, why does everyone say Larry Harmon CREATED BOZO THE
CLOWN?

Actually, officially no one buy's Harmon's claim anymore. He was
tossed out of the Clown Hall Of Fame (or whatever it is) for that
claim quite a while ago. Unfortunatly, as I was mentining in another
post about George Reeves the other day, it may be too late to change
history in an unofficial way. The lie that he created Bozo has been
stated so many times that most people probably think it's true.

ABC News did an exposé a few years ago:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=93063&page=1

[Larc]

Post by g***@aol.com
Possibly the worst thing to happen, if not the worst thing to happen,
to Laurel and Hardy..
the cartoon, the MONOPOLISING of the their names, their bowel
movements, their food,etc.,etc.
and there were rumors some years back about a new LAUREL AND HARDY
(their sons or something) new comedy movie? WIth whom? That guy who
was Stifler in American Pie (and Jack Black)? Ben Stiller and some fat
guy? By the way, why does everyone say Larry Harmon CREATED BOZO THE
CLOWN? Vance Colving and Al Liviingston in 1943 did.

Well, people don't live forever. Harmon is about 83 now...

Larc



§§§ - Change planet to earth to reply by email - §§§

[MJ]

Some of us in the entertainment racket have learned ways of wording
things to make them seem more impressive than they really may have
been when giving our history. Some embellish. Some outright lie.

I admit that I fall into the first catagory. I know lots of people who
fall into the second catagory and we understand each other. People who
fall into the third catagory are the people I stay away from. People
like Larry Harmon.

-MJ

[j***@yahoo.com]

Post by g***@aol.com
Possibly the worst thing to happen, if not the worst thing to happen,
to Laurel and Hardy..
the cartoon, the MONOPOLISING of the their names, their bowel
movements, their food,etc.,etc.
and there were rumors some years back about a new LAUREL AND HARDY
(their sons or something) new comedy movie? WIth whom? That guy who
was Stifler in American Pie (and Jack Black)? Ben Stiller and some fat
guy? By the way, why does everyone say Larry Harmon CREATED BOZO THE
CLOWN? Vance Colving and Al Liviingston in 1943 did.

Well, people don't live forever.  Harmon is about 83 now...
Larc
     §§§ - Change planet to earth to reply by email - §§§

What a horrible thing to say about a person. On Easter Sunday I ran
into Mr. Harmon and his wife in a Jewish Deli and they were absolutely
some of the greatest people I have ever met. Mr. Harmon interrupted
his dinner to take a photo with my daughter and his wife could not
have been more polite. Bozo the clown is by far the most known clown
around the world, and Mr. Harmon deserves credit for all he has done.
Instead of being sad low life people discrediting a person why don't
you thank him for his service to Children and to his Country for his
time in the United States Army?

[Eric Perlin]

jason19d2000 wrote:

} On Easter Sunday I ran into Mr. Harmon and his
} wife in a Jewish Deli and they were absolutely
} some of the greatest people I have ever met.
} Mr. Harmon interrupted his dinner to take a
} photo with my daughter and his wife could not
} have been more polite. Bozo the clown is by
} far the most known clown around the world, and
} Mr. Harmon deserves credit for all he has done.
} Instead of being sad low life people
} discrediting a person why don't you thank him
} for his service to Children and to his Country
} for his time in the United States Army?

I never knew Larry Harmon was in the army. I suppose we owe him a debt of
gratitude for that. Thanks for the info.

As for Bozo the Clown, however, Larry Harmon did not actually create the
character, although for what it's worth, he made Bozo his own. Also for what
it's worth, he wrongly accepted credit for creating Bozo. That's not a crime
tantamount to genocide, but it's still not right.

I cannot understand how Harmon obtained the rights to L&H characters so that
anyone who performs an L&H impression or produces an L&H comic book has to
obtain permission from Harmon. (I would be a millionaire if I owned the rights
to Elvis Presley's "character" and had every Elvis impersonator pay me 1% of
their profits!)

[j***@yahoo.com]

Post by Eric Perlin
I never knew Larry Harmon was in the army. I suppose we owe him a debt of
gratitude for that. Thanks for the info.

Wikipedia doesn't have much about Mr. Harmon other than the fact that
he owns the rights to Bozo and L&H. I guess my running into him and
being able to have a conversation with him and his wife helped shed
some light on the subject. Mr. Harmon should be starting a
documentary on his life today which will be hosted by David
Arquette.
Mr. Harmon is a man who lived through the depression and I am sure
knows how to work hard. He entered the Army from Ohio and served
honorably. As a veteran of Iraq, I know how hard Army life was for
guys back then. I have been in contact with Mrs. Harmon about
interviewing Mr. Harmon about his military life for a documentary I
want to make.
Maybe Mr. Harmon didn't create the character originally, but let's
give him the credit he deserves.

[MJ]

let's

Post by j***@yahoo.com
give him the credit he deserves.

Ummmm.....let me get this straight. Anyone who joins the U.S. Army is
forgiven any future lying, cheating and stealing? That G.I. Bill gets
better all the time!

[j***@yahoo.com]

Post by MJ
let's
Ummmm.....let me get this straight. Anyone who joins the U.S. Army is
forgiven any future lying, cheating and stealing? That G.I. Bill gets
better all the time!

I didn't say because he was in the Army that he should be forgiven.
What I am saying is, is that this man served is Country and
entertained millions of Children. He dedicated his life to
kids....how bad of a guy could he be?

[Ken Doyle]

<***@yahoo.com> wrote:
......entertained millions of Children. He dedicated his life to
kids....

It was a job. He got paid. He got paid a lot. Much of this money came
from his BS.

You will not find many fans of Harmon in this newsgroup.

Ken D.

[Eric Perlin]

jason19d2000 wrote:

} Maybe Mr. Harmon didn't create the character
} originally, but let's give him the credit he
} deserves.

I agree. If you re-read my previous message, I did say "Larry Harmon did not
actually create the character, although for what it's worth, he made Bozo his
own."

It was wrong for him to take full credit for creating the character, but that
does NOT make him a horrible fiend with no redeeming qualities.

I don't like the fact that he owns the rights to the Laurel and Hardy
characters, but it seems like a smart business move to obtain those rights. Even
though Mr. Harmon sounds like a very likeable guy, I still find it slightly
irritating to see "Larry Harmon's Laurel and Hardy" on the covers of comic
books; or to see "Laurel and Hardy characters used with permission of Larry
Harmon" in the credits of TV programs or movies in which L&H impressionists
appear.

[Larc]

On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 01:03:31 -0500, Eric Perlin

Post by Eric Perlin
I don't like the fact that he owns the rights to the Laurel and Hardy
characters, but it seems like a smart business move to obtain those rights. Even
though Mr. Harmon sounds like a very likeable guy, I still find it slightly
irritating to see "Larry Harmon's Laurel and Hardy" on the covers of comic
books; or to see "Laurel and Hardy characters used with permission of Larry
Harmon" in the credits of TV programs or movies in which L&H impressionists
appear.

I frankly fault whoever sold Harmon those rights to start with. That
was the bonehead in the deal, not Harmon. But I think the images of
L&H are so pervasive that they long ago passed into the public domain,
at least morally if not legally.

It would be interesting to see how a court might rule on this.

Larc



§§§ - Change planet to earth to reply by email - §§§

[j***@joelibby.net]

If memory serves, I believe Larry Harmon made the deal directly with
Stan Laurel and Lucille Hardy.

I frankly fault whoever sold Harmon those rights to start with.  That
was the bonehead in the deal, not Harmon.  But I think the images of
L&H are so pervasive that they long ago passed into the public domain,
at least morally if not legally.

[MJ]

Post by j***@joelibby.net
If memory serves, I believe Larry Harmon made the deal directly with
Stan Laurel and Lucille Hardy.
On Mar 26, 10:19�am, Larc

I'm not sure of that date and time, but it's pretty much the case.
There's actually quite a bit of information out there regarding this.
What it comes down to is that Stan, like many entertainers back then,
wanted to do what was right for "Stan and Ollie." Without a room full
of lawyers, he went for what sounded like a good deal. In a way, I
guess Larc is correct in calling Stan a "bonehead." I'm not a big fan
of lawyers, but this is a good example of a situation where they could
have been useful.

Brian Epstein all but gave away merchandising rights for BeaTles
products. Bonehead. These were different times.

Aside from the financial aspects, there's that pesky Artisic Control
thing to consider. Remember that "Love Or Mummy" movie? You really
think Stan would've given the go-ahead to a project like that? OK, so
he was a bonehead. He had no idea what he was throwing out there for
Harmon to grab onto. No, that's not an excuse, but I still feel sorry
for him.

Guess I'm just an old softy. I always have sympathy for old people who
are taken advantage of, just because they feel they should represent
and speak for themselves. You just can't do that with crooks knocking
on your door.

[Larc]

Post by MJ

Post by j***@joelibby.net
If memory serves, I believe Larry Harmon made the deal directly with
Stan Laurel and Lucille Hardy.
On Mar 26, 10:19?am, Larc

I'm not sure of that date and time, but it's pretty much the case.
There's actually quite a bit of information out there regarding this.
What it comes down to is that Stan, like many entertainers back then,
wanted to do what was right for "Stan and Ollie." Without a room full
of lawyers, he went for what sounded like a good deal. In a way, I
guess Larc is correct in calling Stan a "bonehead." I'm not a big fan
of lawyers, but this is a good example of a situation where they could
have been useful.
Brian Epstein all but gave away merchandising rights for BeaTles
products. Bonehead. These were different times.
Aside from the financial aspects, there's that pesky Artisic Control
thing to consider. Remember that "Love Or Mummy" movie? You really
think Stan would've given the go-ahead to a project like that? OK, so
he was a bonehead. He had no idea what he was throwing out there for
Harmon to grab onto. No, that's not an excuse, but I still feel sorry
for him.
Guess I'm just an old softy. I always have sympathy for old people who
are taken advantage of, just because they feel they should represent
and speak for themselves. You just can't do that with crooks knocking
on your door.

Maybe I should back off a bit since I don't feel comfortable calling
either Stan or Lucille a "bonehead." Let's just say they were
somewhat misguided. But as you said, they both needed good lawyers in
dealing with something like this. Or the presence of mind to tell
Harmon to go to hell!

I'm surprised Stan couldn't have seen that Harmon had no ethical
ground to control his image. It's like Yugo buying Rolls-Royce. Was
Stan really so desperate for money?

Larc



§§§ - Change planet to earth to reply by email - §§§

[MJ]

Was

Post by Larc
Stan really so desperate for money?

Not at all. He was truly convinced that Harmon would perpetuate "Stan
& Ollie" with respect. It seems that this was far more the concern
than was any financial gain. In reality, the money didn't really
amount to a whole lot, anyway.

Harmon has made a career of lying. He's very, very good at it. Only
recently has he been called on it. Betcha he's producing this alleged
documentary on himself. Sure, there's an interesting story in his
life. Maybe a story that would make a good film. I doubt that it's the
story that Harmon wants told, though.

Don't feel bad about calling Stan a bonhead. He was a bright guy
(perhaps a genius) in his chosen profession. Most of us here are proud
of our accomplishments professionally. Once we're out of our zone, we
can be real boneheads. In this case, it was just Stan Jefferson doing
Stan Laurel in real life. You know, "...then the profits can go to the
fish....."

-MJ

[b***@earthlink.net]

Stan was far from a bonehead. He noticed that Harmon had inserted new
wording in the contract when it was up for renewal: "in perpetuity."
Stan scratched it out. Harmon may have scratched it back in!

[Larc]

Post by b***@earthlink.net
Stan was far from a bonehead. He noticed that Harmon had inserted new
wording in the contract when it was up for renewal: "in perpetuity."
Stan scratched it out. Harmon may have scratched it back in!

I can picture Harmon being played by Fin, gleefully rubbing his hands
together at the prospect of all the money he'd make on personalities
he didn't contribute even a single atom to the success of.

It takes a certain calibre of men to do things like that. And they
are not honorable men, regardless of whatever charming front they
might present in public.

Larc



§§§ - Change planet to earth to reply by email - §§§

[Matt Barry]

Post by Larc

Post by b***@earthlink.net
Stan was far from a bonehead. He noticed that Harmon had inserted new
wording in the contract when it was up for renewal: "in perpetuity."
Stan scratched it out. Harmon may have scratched it back in!

I can picture Harmon being played by Fin, gleefully rubbing his hands
together at the prospect of all the money he'd make on personalities
he didn't contribute even a single atom to the success of.
It takes a certain calibre of men to do things like that. And they
are not honorable men, regardless of whatever charming front they
might present in public.
Larc
§§§ - Change planet to earth to reply by email - §§§

I have to confess feeling a bit sorry for Harmon being stripped of his entry
into the Clown Hall of Fame after it was confirmed that Pinto Colvig, not
Harmon, created the Bozo character.

That said, it doesn't excuse the dishonesty he exhibited earlier in his
career, and I'm sure that from a professional standpoint, there are many who
feel he deserves no credit.

[j***@joelibby.net]

Wow! Quite a few people seem intent on casting Larry Harmon as some
kind of black-hearted villain. Now, maybe he hasn't done all the right
things in marketing the images of Stan and Ollie (I really don't know
enough say if he has or hasn't), but I do not think he's the modern-
day equivalent of Silas Barnaby. What he entered into with Stan and
Lucille was a licensing agreement; clearly, they thought it was a good
arrangement. And I'm sure they would not have done so without first
consulting Ben Shipman or another competent attorney.

And for Harmon to have made good money from entertaining kids ... why,
that's despicable! <sarcasm>

See ya!
Joe Libby
San Antonio's Despicable
Kids and Family Show Entertainer
www.joelibby.net

[MJ]

Post by j***@joelibby.net
And for Harmon to have made good money from entertaining kids ... why,
that's despicable!

You know, that word is rarely seen in print. I've become so used to
Daffy pronoucing it with a TH where the S is, I might actually spell
it that way.

Anyway, I don't think anyone is saying that entertaining kids is evil.
It appears that one person claims that he did a wonderful and noble
thing by getting a job like that, and another person is pointing out
that is was, in fact, a job and he should not be considered a hero for
it. Both points may have merit.

Personally, I spent many years entertaining children. Still do once in
a while. It can be a tough job. Even on TV, where it looks easy, it's
not easy. Fun, yes; easy, no. In my case, I almost always had themes
to the programs (various types of safety, recycling, self esteem,
etc.). Does that make me a hero? Amazingly, a lot of people (parents,
school adminitrators, etc.) think so. But I get paid. It's a job. It's
a kinda WEIRD job by most standards, but it's still a job.

No, entertaing kids isn't evil. Using dishonesty as your prime tool
is. If you've got your scorecard handy, I think you can clearly see
where Larry Harmon rates in the "honerable" catagory.

-MJ

[j***@joelibby.net]

Yes, Mr. Harmon's been called out on the Bozo claims; I understand
that. But what exactly has he done that's dishonest regarding
marketing the likenesses of Laurel and Hardy? Seriously, enlighten me
if I'm missing something. From all I can tell, it appears that people
simply don't like the fact he owns the licensing rights. But maybe
there's a part of that story I don't know.

And frankly, if you're entertaining kids ONLY for the money (as has
been implied about Larry Harmon on this topic), you won't last long.
Larry Harmon has had staying power; he must have been doing something
right.

See ya!
Joe Libby
San Antonio's Money-grubbing
Kids Show Entertainer

On Mar 28, 10:16 pm, MJ <***@aol.com> wrote:
.

Post by MJ
No, entertaing kids isn't evil. Using dishonesty as your prime tool
is. If you've got your scorecard handy, I think you can clearly see
where Larry Harmon rates in the "honerable" catagory.
-MJ

[MJ]

Post by j***@joelibby.net
what exactly has he done that's dishonest regarding
marketing the likenesses of Laurel and Hardy?

Nothing I know of ..... that was in writing. A lot has been said after
the fact regarding promises made, but you have to choose up sides on
that moral end of the debate. Personal experience taught me long ago
that everything needs to be in writing. Let's face it: Stan goofed up.
Aside from vetoing two words and trusting Harmon to abide by that veto
(BIG mistake to trust a guy like that), it's all perfectly legal.

Post by j***@joelibby.net
Larry Harmon has had staying power; he must have been doing something

right.

Yup. It's called franchising. Of course, he had legal issues with
that, as well.

By the way, anybody here know what happens to the marketing rights
(L&H AND Bozo) once Harmon sheds his mortal coil?

-MJ

[Jim R.]

Hey, this is kind of off-topic, but not really. Pinto Colvig - the
REAL creator of Bozo the Clown. Wasn't he also the original voice of
Goofy in the Disney cartoons? Interesting connection there. (I think
he left Disney to work for the Fleischer Brothers.) - Jim Roebuck

[Reverend Ozone]

Post by Jim R.
Hey, this is kind of off-topic, but not really. Pinto Colvig - the
REAL creator of Bozo the Clown. Wasn't he also the original voice of
Goofy in the Disney cartoons? Interesting connection there. (I think
he left Disney to work for the Fleischer Brothers.) - Jim Roebuck

Yep, on both counts (although nothing is mentioned or inferred here that he left
Disney for Fleischer):

"The musician, artist and former circus clown also lent his voice to Disney's
beloved character, Goofy, beginning with the character's debut in the 1932 short
"Mickey's Revue" until Pinto's death in 1967."

"In the 1940s and 50s, he was the original "Bozo, the Capitol Clown," providing
narration to a series of storybook albums produced by Capitol Records."

http://legends.disney.go.com/legends/detail?key=Pinto+Colvig

Also (and here is the Fleischer/Popeye connection):

"What do Bozo the Clown, Walt Disney’s Goofy and Popeye’s nemesis Bluto have in
common? The answer is Pinto Colvig. "Who?" you ask. Pinto Colvig is possibly
the most popular celebrity whose name you’ve never heard."

http://www.clown-ministry.com/index_1.php?/site/articles/biography_of_pinto_colvig_the_original_bozo_the_clown/

Finally, this should clear up the question of whether he "left" Disney for
Fleischer (apparently not):

"The advent of sound drove Pinto from silent comedy to Walt Disney Studios,
where he continued as a gag man, co-wrote “Who’s Afraid of the Big Bad Wolf,”
and found yet a new career in sound effects and character voices. He barked for
Pluto and spoke for the Practical Pig, Grumpy and Sleepy, and was the voice of
Goofy for the next thirty-five years. Pinto also voiced Popeye’s Bluto for
Fleischer Studios and for decades produced a broad range of *freelance* *voice*
*work* (emphasis, mine) for radio, cartoons and film. Several Munchkins in “The
Wizard of Oz” speak and sing in Pinto Colvig’s voice, including the one who
sounds exactly like his Gabby from Fleischer’s “Gulliver’s Travels.”

http://matineeatthebijou.blogspot.com/2007/12/brief-biography-of-pinto-colvig.html

There ya go. It was fun doing the research.

[ScottO]

Post by Reverend Ozone

Post by Jim R.
Hey, this is kind of off-topic, but not really. Pinto Colvig - the
REAL creator of Bozo the Clown. Wasn't he also the original voice of
Goofy in the Disney cartoons? Interesting connection there. (I think
he left Disney to work for the Fleischer Brothers.) - Jim Roebuck

Yep, on both counts (although nothing is mentioned or inferred here that
"The musician, artist and former circus clown also lent his voice to
Disney's beloved character, Goofy, beginning with the character's debut in
the 1932 short "Mickey's Revue" until Pinto's death in 1967."

It's my understanding he never worked for Disney after he left for
Fleischer. Goofy for many years was a "silent" character whose shorts used
narration ("How to Ski, How to Drive, etc.)

scott

[Reverend Ozone]

Post by ScottO

Post by Reverend Ozone

Post by Jim R.
Hey, this is kind of off-topic, but not really. Pinto Colvig - the
REAL creator of Bozo the Clown. Wasn't he also the original voice of
Goofy in the Disney cartoons? Interesting connection there. (I think
he left Disney to work for the Fleischer Brothers.) - Jim Roebuck

Yep, on both counts (although nothing is mentioned or inferred here that
"The musician, artist and former circus clown also lent his voice to
Disney's beloved character, Goofy, beginning with the character's debut in
the 1932 short "Mickey's Revue" until Pinto's death in 1967."

It's my understanding he never worked for Disney after he left for
Fleischer. Goofy for many years was a "silent" character whose shorts used
narration ("How to Ski, How to Drive, etc.)

Hmmm, I won't argue the point; you may very well be right. I just didn't find
any conclusive answer one way or the other to that question.

[Bill Coleman]

Not according to the IMDB:

http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0173418/

Admittedly they are not always right, but this is many credits, not just one
or two,
so not that likely to be totally wrong. Anyway, somebody did those voices on
the
later Goofy films...

Bill Coleman

--------------------------------------

Post by ScottO

Post by Reverend Ozone

Post by Jim R.
Hey, this is kind of off-topic, but not really. Pinto Colvig - the
REAL creator of Bozo the Clown. Wasn't he also the original voice of
Goofy in the Disney cartoons? Interesting connection there. (I think
he left Disney to work for the Fleischer Brothers.) - Jim Roebuck

Yep, on both counts (although nothing is mentioned or inferred here that
"The musician, artist and former circus clown also lent his voice to
Disney's beloved character, Goofy, beginning with the character's debut
in the 1932 short "Mickey's Revue" until Pinto's death in 1967."

It's my understanding he never worked for Disney after he left for
Fleischer. Goofy for many years was a "silent" character whose shorts used
narration ("How to Ski, How to Drive, etc.)
scott

[Derek Gee]

Post by Reverend Ozone

Post by Jim R.
Hey, this is kind of off-topic, but not really. Pinto Colvig - the
REAL creator of Bozo the Clown. Wasn't he also the original voice of
Goofy in the Disney cartoons? Interesting connection there. (I think
he left Disney to work for the Fleischer Brothers.) - Jim Roebuck

Yep, on both counts (although nothing is mentioned or inferred here that he left
"The musician, artist and former circus clown also lent his voice to Disney's
beloved character, Goofy, beginning with the character's debut in the 1932 short
"Mickey's Revue" until Pinto's death in 1967."
"In the 1940s and 50s, he was the original "Bozo, the Capitol Clown," providing
narration to a series of storybook albums produced by Capitol Records."
http://legends.disney.go.com/legends/detail?key=Pinto+Colvig
"What do Bozo the Clown, Walt Disney’s Goofy and Popeye’s nemesis Bluto have in
common? The answer is Pinto Colvig. "Who?" you ask. Pinto Colvig is possibly
the most popular celebrity whose name you’ve never heard."
http://www.clown-ministry.com/index_1.php?/site/articles/biography_of_pinto_colvig_the_original_bozo_the_clown/
Finally, this should clear up the question of whether he "left" Disney for
"The advent of sound drove Pinto from silent comedy to Walt Disney Studios,
where he continued as a gag man, co-wrote “Who’s Afraid of the Big Bad Wolf,”
and found yet a new career in sound effects and character voices. He barked for
Pluto and spoke for the Practical Pig, Grumpy and Sleepy, and was the voice of
Goofy for the next thirty-five years. Pinto also voiced Popeye’s Bluto for
Fleischer Studios and for decades produced a broad range of *freelance* *voice*
*work* (emphasis, mine) for radio, cartoons and film. Several Munchkins in “The
Wizard of Oz” speak and sing in Pinto Colvig’s voice, including the one who
sounds exactly like his Gabby from Fleischer’s “Gulliver’s Travels.”
http://matineeatthebijou.blogspot.com/2007/12/brief-biography-of-pinto-colvig.html
There ya go. It was fun doing the research.

Problem is - it's wrong. Colvig did indeed leave Disney for Fleischer.
I seem to recall from one of the animation websites that it was a salary
dispute that caused him to leave. Here's the proof from Disney director
Jack Kinney's book "Walt Disney and Assorted Other Characters" page 123:

"As production took its natural course, I did voice casting for a
narrator to do the voice-over dialogue. I was looking for something
different. Voice-over was the only choice, because, as we saw it, the
Goof couldn't talk much if at all. The reason for this was that Pinto
Colvig, the old circus hand who had done Goofy's patter for years, had
left the studio. Consequently, all the Goof's manic mutterings had to
be lifted from the studio library of sound tracks."

The problem with doing research on the internet, is that as soon as one
person publishes an incorrect fact, it get spread all over and is
seldom, if ever corrected.

Derek

[MJ]

Hey, here's point to ponder. The "Way Out West" still I mentioned
earlier was a posed shot that looked like it COULD have been a frame
from the film (but it absolutely is not). But what about actual film
frames? Does Fake Bozo own those? I know that he doesn't own the films
and that he can't lay claim to two frames shown in succession (making
it a "film clip"), but what about individual frames?

Now, the fact is that Fake Bozo can and has created films of fake L&H.
Remember the cartoons? Remember "Love Or Mummy"? But where is the line
drawn on the real L&H? Can he pull random frames (not posed stills)
and claim that they are presented courtesy of Fake Bozo?

This question just came to me during this delerious time when I should
be asleep. Sometimes I ask my best questions under such circumstances.

-MJ

[Brian]

If anyone out there has the 1976 magazine, "The History of Laurel and
Hardy", Larry Harmon has written an extensive article on how he has
upheld the L&H name (including a then-recent lawsuit against Hal Roach
Studios and Richard Feiner).

Also the signed photo to Larry Harmon by Stan is also included with
the article (although small, one can still make out the inscription--
perhaps if one scanned it, it would be clearer)

I don't have the time to transcribe the article here, it it certainly
would be worth someone doing so and looking at it from a historic
point of view. But I wouldn't recommend reading it on an empty stomach
as it's hurl-inducing.

Also check out Stan's opinion of Larry via lettersfromstan.com as well.

[Shark]

Post by j***@joelibby.net
Yes, Mr. Harmon's been called out on the Bozo claims; I understand
that. But what exactly has he done that's dishonest regarding
marketing the likenesses of Laurel and Hardy? Seriously, enlighten me
if I'm missing something. From all I can tell, it appears that people
simply don't like the fact he owns the licensing rights. But maybe
there's a part of that story I don't know.

I have heard this story...maybe Scott or someone can point us to some
kind of documentation of it.

Supposedly, Harmon asked Stan to sign some photos for him. Stan asked
if he wanted an inscription, or wanted Stan to write anything
specific. Harmon asked Stan to write an inscription "to my good friend
who does the best impressions of me I've ever seen," or words to that
effect. Harmon then supposedly used the signed photo as evidence in
some kind of court case.

I'm kind of fuzzy, though, on the specifics of the bogus inscription.
Maybe someone out there knows more.

I've spoken to several people who worked on the Bozo Show on WGN. Most
of their remarks re Harmon were off the record...he's been described
as a "charlatan," "jerk," and other more colorful names you won't see
in a family newspaper. Supposedly, Joey D'Auria (the second Bozo on
WGN) was once asked in an interview about the history of the Bozo
character. D'Auria spoke about the history of Bozo The Capitol Clown
and said the character had been created by Alan Livingston. Allegedly,
Harmon went ballistic and had D'Auria's contract amended so he was no
longer allowed to discuss the Bozo character when not performing as
the character (i.e. in an interview). The "Grand Prize Game" was
created by Don Sandburg...Larry Harmon created a home version of the
game and never gave Sandburg or WGN any credit or any royalties.
Harmon also licensed a Bozo coloring book in the 1960s which was
published by Western Publishing. The illustrations feature Bozo,
Butchy and other characters from the cartoons, as well as Oliver O.
Oliver, Sandy and Ringmaster Ned (all characters from the Chicago Bozo
show). The title page says Bozo The Clown is copyrighted by Capitol
Records, Inc. "All other characters (c) MCMLXV, MCMLXII Larry Harmon
Pictures Corporation." They were never asked permission and never got
anything for the use of their character likenesses.

I have never met the man, but anyway, the above are examples of why
some people who've dealt with him don't like him.

But I don't know him.

[j***@joelibby.net]

Shark, please don't take this as an attack on you, because it isn't,
but that sounds apocryphal to me. But even if it is true, if Stan
actually wrote the autograph, then it's not bogus. Hopefully someone
can provide some additional details on that situation.

Other posters have implied that Stan Laurel and Lucille Hardy made a
bad business decision by entering into a contract with Larry Harmon.
Well I don't know if that's true or not. But if Stan and Lucille
didn't think it was a good arrangement, they wouldn't have signed. And
I feel certain that if Stan felt later that he'd been wronged by
Harmon, he wouldn't have been quiet about it. We all know very well
how he felt about "those Fox people."

I'm not trying to attack anyone here, I'm just trying to be logical
about this topic. But truly, if someone can provide evidence that
Harmon has done something dishonest in marketing the images of Laurel
and Hardy, now would be the time to post it. And then you can prepare
my crow any way you'd like.

Joe Libby
www.joelibby.net

Post by Shark

Post by j***@joelibby.net
Yes, Mr. Harmon's been called out on the Bozo claims; I understand
that. But what exactly has he done that's dishonest regarding
marketing the likenesses of Laurel and Hardy? Seriously, enlighten me
if I'm missing something. From all I can tell, it appears that people
simply don't like the fact he owns the licensing rights. But maybe
there's a part of that story I don't know.

I have heard this story...maybe Scott or someone can point us to some
kind of documentation of it.
Supposedly, Harmon asked Stan to sign some photos for him. Stan asked
if he wanted an inscription, or wanted Stan to write anything
specific. Harmon asked Stan to write an inscription "to my good friend
who does the best impressions of me I've ever seen," or words to that
effect. Harmon then supposedly used the signed photo as evidence in
some kind of court case.
I'm kind of fuzzy, though, on the specifics of the bogus inscription.
Maybe someone out there knows more.

[MJ]

Joe-

I'm not sure anyone said that he did anything illegal. Immoral,
certainly! That seems to be the sad legacy of Harmon, though. Keep
within the law, but lie your way around every situation.

I do seem to recall Stan's displeasure about what Fake Bozo had done.
There's no way I can locate a direct reference to it right now, but
I'm pretty sure I've seen it in print.

As L&H fans, it just bugs us to no end, of course, and opinions often
overpower the facts. I have a routine that I do with small (20 or
less) groups where the final revelation is manifested with a still
from "Way Out West." Below the photo is (was), in too bold for comfort
"Larry Harmon presents Laurel and Hardy in 'Way Out West'". Well,
thank the greater powers for Monkee Mike's mom. It took a lot of Wite-
Out to obliterate that line. I ask you, just WHAT the hell did Harmon
ever have to do with "Way Out West"?

So, yeah, I'm bugged about it. But I get bugged about a lot of things
I see that are perfectly legal. You've felt that old feeling that
There Oughta Be A Law, haven't you? Well, maybe there oughta, but
there probaby ain't.

I know that this doesn't really answer your question, but this is the
Internet. I can unload a ton of opinions, speculations, and other
assorted crap here and a few people might actually read it. Fewer
still may actually respond. Life is still too cool for words, isn't
it?

-MJ

[Matt Barry]

Post by j***@joelibby.net
Wow! Quite a few people seem intent on casting Larry Harmon as some
kind of black-hearted villain. Now, maybe he hasn't done all the right
things in marketing the images of Stan and Ollie (I really don't know
enough say if he has or hasn't), but I do not think he's the modern-
day equivalent of Silas Barnaby. What he entered into with Stan and
Lucille was a licensing agreement; clearly, they thought it was a good
arrangement. And I'm sure they would not have done so without first
consulting Ben Shipman or another competent attorney.
And for Harmon to have made good money from entertaining kids ... why,
that's despicable! <sarcasm>
See ya!
Joe Libby
San Antonio's Despicable
Kids and Family Show Entertainer
www.joelibby.net

I certainly don't think he's despicable for having made a living as a
children's entertainer. In fact, I felt quite bad for him when he was
stripped of his entry into the Clown Hall of Fame. For many, Harmon is most
closely associated with the Bozo the Clown character, and did more than
anyone else to market him and turn him into an icon.

My only concern would be that among professional entertainers, claiming
credit for something created by others could earn a lot of animosity from
other professionals. I wouldn't blame other professional entertainers
feeling that Harmon did a dishonest thing.

As far as his marketing of Laurel and Hardy, I think he's done a good job of
keeping their images out there (certainly more than Hallmark ever did, or
whoever it is that owns the films now). Stan Laurel appears to have been
quite naive as a businessman, in any case, but I'm sure he was just glad to
see the characters marketed.

[Matt Barry]

Post by MJ
Was

Post by Larc
Stan really so desperate for money?

Not at all. He was truly convinced that Harmon would perpetuate "Stan
& Ollie" with respect. It seems that this was far more the concern
than was any financial gain. In reality, the money didn't really
amount to a whole lot, anyway.
Harmon has made a career of lying. He's very, very good at it. Only
recently has he been called on it. Betcha he's producing this alleged
documentary on himself. Sure, there's an interesting story in his
life. Maybe a story that would make a good film. I doubt that it's the
story that Harmon wants told, though.
Don't feel bad about calling Stan a bonhead. He was a bright guy
(perhaps a genius) in his chosen profession. Most of us here are proud
of our accomplishments professionally. Once we're out of our zone, we
can be real boneheads. In this case, it was just Stan Jefferson doing
Stan Laurel in real life. You know, "...then the profits can go to the
fish....."
-MJ

With all due respect to Laurel, based strictly on what I have read in a
number of books that were well-researched, he seems to have been wildly
inept at the dealings of the business end of the film industry. I've read
that one of the few times Hardy really was upset with Laurel occurred after
a business meeting with Roach, in which Laurel instantly caved in to Roach's
lower offer for salary.

[Eric Perlin]

Larc wrote:


} Maybe I should back off a bit since I don't feel
} comfortable calling either Stan or Lucille a
} "bonehead."

Perhaps "blockheads" is a more fitting term?

[Paul Fitzpatrick]

Post by Eric Perlin
As for Bozo the Clown, however, Larry Harmon did not actually create the
character, although for what it's worth, he made Bozo his own. Also for what
it's worth, he wrongly accepted credit for creating Bozo. That's not a crime
tantamount to genocide, but it's still not right.

For the record, in Tim Hollis' book HI THERE, BOYS AND GIRLS:
AMERICA'S LOCAL CHILDREN'S TV PROGRAMS, it mentions that Larry
Harmon's Bozo the Clown cartoons carried the credit that Bozo, the
Capitol Clown, was created by Alan Livingston.

[Shark]

Post by Paul Fitzpatrick

Post by Eric Perlin
As for Bozo the Clown, however, Larry Harmon did not actually create the
character, although for what it's worth, he made Bozo his own. Also for what
it's worth, he wrongly accepted credit for creating Bozo. That's not a crime
tantamount to genocide, but it's still not right.

AMERICA'S LOCAL CHILDREN'S TV PROGRAMS, it mentions that Larry
Harmon's Bozo the Clown cartoons carried the credit that Bozo, the
Capitol Clown, was created by Alan Livingston.

That was on the old 16mm film prints that the TV stations originally
received years ago. WGN ran those old film prints on and off into the
early 1990s until they had turned red and were covered with ice-
skating film scratch lines. (Incidentally, the last time WGN ran some
of the Bozo cartoons on the weekday Bozo show was in 1991 when
original cast member Don "Sandy" Sandburg returned to fill in for Roy
"Cooky" Brown for a couple weeks while Brown recuperated from cardiac
surgery.) Originally, they'd have one of the cartoons on two or three
days a week, but by the early 1980s, WGN seldom ran the cartoons.
They'd show two or three a year...I wonder if that was the minimum to
meet the terms of their contract with Harmon. Anyway, WGN did bring
the cartoons back in 1995 (after the show had been moved to Sunday
mornings only) and for two straight years, they showed a Bozo cartoon
on every show. By then, they had gotten new taped copies of the
cartoons, which apparently didn't include Livingston's credit. I know
this was a real sticking point with Allen Hall, the producer of the
show. Anyway, for those showings, as the cartoon was ending, they
would transition to a still frame of the credit, possibly from an old
film print: "The character Bozo is based on Bozo The Capitol Clown
created by Alan Livingston." This was done quite deliberately and
they'd stay on it for several seconds, as if to underscore the point
that Larry Harmon did not create Bozo!

It was also at Larry Harmon's insistence that Bob Bell's Bozo costume
was changed from red to blue in 1970. I'm told Harmon relentlessly
badgered producer Don Sandburg over it, but Sandburg wouldn't budge.
After Sandburg left, it was changed.