Keaton Killed Classic Comedy

[Eric Perlin]

Buster Keaton is responsible for the demise of interest in classic movie comedy.

According to author/film historian Jim Neibaur, the premiere of Saturday Night
Live in 1975 is responsible for a sharp decline of interest in classic movie
comedy among young people, and SNL muscled its way onto the scene, replacing all
the classics with a new brand of so-called "hip" comedy. A few years after
Saturday Night Live debuted, college campuses completely abandoned W.C. Fields,
the Marx Brothers, and the rest of the classic comedians. Jim Neibaur sees a
correlation.

Of course, Saturday Night Live did not really come out of nowhere. Like
everything else, Saturday Night Live was influenced by things that came before
it.

Buster Keaton often used surreal, impossible sight gags in his films, which
clearly influenced Ernie Kovacs decades later.

Ernie Kovacs' tendency to violate all the conventions and go for weird and
bizarre imagery had a noticeable influence on Monty Python's Flying Circus years
later.

The edgy, often risqué nature of Monty Python's Flying Circus was a major
influence on the writers and cast of Saturday Night Live. In fact, the TV movie
"The Rutles: All You Need is Cash" was clearly a collaborative effort of several
members of both Monty Python and Saturday Night Live.

Summary: Keaton begat Kovacs; Kocacs begat Monty Python; and Monty Python begat
Saturday Night Live.

Anyhow, if Saturday Night Live is to blame for the decline of interest in
classic old comedy, then anything that influenced Saturday Night Live is also to
blame. Therefore, the lack of interest in classic comedy among contemporary
audiences is the fault of Buster Keaton.

[Rex Hunt]

Post by Eric Perlin
Buster Keaton is responsible for the demise of interest in classic movie comedy.
According to author/film historian Jim Neibaur, the premiere of Saturday Night
Live in 1975 is responsible for a sharp decline of interest in classic movie
comedy among young people, and SNL muscled its way onto the scene, replacing all
the classics with a new brand of so-called "hip" comedy. A few years after
Saturday Night Live debuted, college campuses completely abandoned W.C. Fields,
the Marx Brothers, and the rest of the classic comedians. Jim Neibaur sees a
correlation.
Of course, Saturday Night Live did not really come out of nowhere. Like
everything else, Saturday Night Live was influenced by things that came before
it.
Buster Keaton often used surreal, impossible sight gags in his films, which
clearly influenced Ernie Kovacs decades later.
Ernie Kovacs' tendency to violate all the conventions and go for weird and
bizarre imagery had a noticeable influence on Monty Python's Flying Circus years
later.
The edgy, often risqué nature of Monty Python's Flying Circus was a major
influence on the writers and cast of Saturday Night Live. In fact, the TV movie
"The Rutles: All You Need is Cash" was clearly a collaborative effort of several
members of both Monty Python and Saturday Night Live.
Summary: Keaton begat Kovacs; Kocacs begat Monty Python; and Monty Python begat
Saturday Night Live.
Anyhow, if Saturday Night Live is to blame for the decline of interest in
classic old comedy, then anything that influenced Saturday Night Live is also to
blame. Therefore, the lack of interest in classic comedy among contemporary
audiences is the fault of Buster Keaton.

Tell me that again.

[m***@gmail.com]

Amusing, but is there any evidence that the Pythons actually ever saw
Ernie Kovacs?

I think their influences were more British ones, along with some
foreign filmmakers and visual artists (Gilliam obviously draws on Max
Ernst, Joseph Cornell, etc.)

Maybe a better route would be via Bunuel's great admiration for Keaton?

[Perry Shields]

Sid Caesar and "Your Show of Shows" was a stronger influence and
predecessor for SNL than anything else, IMO. Same network, same night, same
format, same running time. Classic comedy didn't die out in the 50s because
of Caesar.

Post by m***@gmail.com
Amusing, but is there any evidence that the Pythons actually ever saw
Ernie Kovacs?
I think their influences were more British ones, along with some
foreign filmmakers and visual artists (Gilliam obviously draws on Max
Ernst, Joseph Cornell, etc.)
Maybe a better route would be via Bunuel's great admiration for Keaton?

[rollot24]

I believe the Pythons were most influenenced by Spike Milligan's The
Goon Show.

Post by m***@gmail.com
Amusing, but is there any evidence that the Pythons actually ever saw
Ernie Kovacs?
I think their influences were more British ones, along with some
foreign filmmakers and visual artists (Gilliam obviously draws on Max
Ernst, Joseph Cornell, etc.)
Maybe a better route would be via Bunuel's great admiration for Keaton?

[Kimba W. Lion]

Post by rollot24
I believe the Pythons were most influenenced by Spike Milligan's The
Goon Show.

The Goons influenced everyone who came after them. The Pythons were part
of a long line of comedy inbreeding and recycling in England. The Goons
make a good name for them to drop because the Goons were not a direct part
of this stream (diversion). If you check out the predecessors to the
Pythons, such as "I'm Sorry I'll Read that Again", "At Last the 1948
Show", and "Cambridge Circus", it becomes evident that a lot of the
Python's material was quite well worn. The main thing the Pythons had
going for them was a worldwide distribution deal that the other shows
didn't have.

[Roger the Saurus]

Post by Eric Perlin
Buster Keaton is responsible for the demise of interest in classic movie comedy.
According to author/film historian Jim Neibaur, the premiere of Saturday Night
Live in 1975 is responsible for a sharp decline of interest in classic movie
comedy among young people, and SNL muscled its way onto the scene, replacing all
the classics with a new brand of so-called "hip" comedy. A few years after
Saturday Night Live debuted, college campuses completely abandoned W.C. Fields,
the Marx Brothers, and the rest of the classic comedians. Jim Neibaur sees a
correlation.
Of course, Saturday Night Live did not really come out of nowhere. Like
everything else, Saturday Night Live was influenced by things that came before
it.
Buster Keaton often used surreal, impossible sight gags in his films, which
clearly influenced Ernie Kovacs decades later.
Ernie Kovacs' tendency to violate all the conventions and go for weird and
bizarre imagery had a noticeable influence on Monty Python's Flying Circus years
later.
The edgy, often risqué nature of Monty Python's Flying Circus was a major
influence on the writers and cast of Saturday Night Live. In fact, the TV movie
"The Rutles: All You Need is Cash" was clearly a collaborative effort of several
members of both Monty Python and Saturday Night Live.
Summary: Keaton begat Kovacs; Kocacs begat Monty Python; and Monty Python begat
Saturday Night Live.
Anyhow, if Saturday Night Live is to blame for the decline of interest in
classic old comedy, then anything that influenced Saturday Night Live is also to
blame. Therefore, the lack of interest in classic comedy among
contemporary
audiences is the fault of Buster Keaton.

Thank you. I haven't laughed so much in years. Monty Python's inspiration
was the satire of the early sixties - Peter Cook, Dudley Moore, Alan Bennett
and Jonathan Miller - and the Goon Show by Spike Milligan who himself
acknowledged the Marx Brothers as a huge influence. Monty Python's immediate
predecessors were I'm sorry I'll read that again, At last the 1948 show and
Do not adjust your set, each of which contained future Monty Python members.
If you were to watch the latter two and listen to the first you would notice
the early roots of Python which are distinctly English.

And The Rutles was a collaboration between Eric Idle and Neil Innes - the
first a former Python and the other a one time member of the Bonzo Dog band.
They first met when working on Do not adjust your set.

Finally Buster Keaton is classic comedy and widely acknowledged as such.
The next instalment: how Adolf Hitler killed the classic Western

[Lincoln Spector]

Post by Eric Perlin
Buster Keaton is responsible for the demise of interest in classic movie comedy.
According to author/film historian Jim Neibaur, the premiere of Saturday Night
Live in 1975 is responsible for a sharp decline of interest in classic movie
comedy among young people, and SNL muscled its way onto the scene, replacing all
the classics with a new brand of so-called "hip" comedy. A few years after
Saturday Night Live debuted, college campuses completely abandoned W.C. Fields,
the Marx Brothers, and the rest of the classic comedians. Jim Neibaur sees a
correlation.
Of course, Saturday Night Live did not really come out of nowhere. Like
everything else, Saturday Night Live was influenced by things that came before
it.
Buster Keaton often used surreal, impossible sight gags in his films, which
clearly influenced Ernie Kovacs decades later.
Ernie Kovacs' tendency to violate all the conventions and go for weird and
bizarre imagery had a noticeable influence on Monty Python's Flying Circus years
later.
The edgy, often risqué nature of Monty Python's Flying Circus was a major
influence on the writers and cast of Saturday Night Live. In fact, the TV movie
"The Rutles: All You Need is Cash" was clearly a collaborative effort of several
members of both Monty Python and Saturday Night Live.
Summary: Keaton begat Kovacs; Kocacs begat Monty Python; and Monty Python begat
Saturday Night Live.
Anyhow, if Saturday Night Live is to blame for the decline of interest in
classic old comedy, then anything that influenced Saturday Night Live is also to
blame. Therefore, the lack of interest in classic comedy among
contemporary
audiences is the fault of Buster Keaton.

I think we have to blame Gilbert & Sullivan.

Neibaur's argument (assuming he meant it seriously) deserves a skewering.

Lincoln

[Brian]

Tell me that again....

[[e-mail]]

Post by Eric Perlin
Buster Keaton is responsible for the demise of interest in classic movie comedy.
According to author/film historian Jim Neibaur, the premiere of Saturday Night
Live in 1975 is responsible for a sharp decline of interest in classic movie
comedy among young people, and SNL muscled its way onto the scene, replacing all
the classics with a new brand of so-called "hip" comedy. A few years after
Saturday Night Live debuted, college campuses completely abandoned W.C. Fields,
the Marx Brothers, and the rest of the classic comedians. Jim Neibaur sees a
correlation.
Of course, Saturday Night Live did not really come out of nowhere. Like
everything else, Saturday Night Live was influenced by things that came before
it.
Buster Keaton often used surreal, impossible sight gags in his films, which
clearly influenced Ernie Kovacs decades later.
Ernie Kovacs' tendency to violate all the conventions and go for weird and
bizarre imagery had a noticeable influence on Monty Python's Flying Circus years
later.
The edgy, often risqué nature of Monty Python's Flying Circus was a major
influence on the writers and cast of Saturday Night Live. In fact, the TV movie
"The Rutles: All You Need is Cash" was clearly a collaborative effort of several
members of both Monty Python and Saturday Night Live.
Summary: Keaton begat Kovacs; Kocacs begat Monty Python; and Monty Python begat
Saturday Night Live.
Anyhow, if Saturday Night Live is to blame for the decline of interest in
classic old comedy, then anything that influenced Saturday Night Live is also to
blame. Therefore, the lack of interest in classic comedy among contemporary
audiences is the fault of Buster Keaton.

Why it is true the college campuses did abandon the Marx Brothers and
W.C. Fields around the time SNL debuted in 1975, I really feel that
the show had nothing to with that.
Saturday Night Live was not an overnight hit, it took little while to
find its audience, and then lost many when original cast members start
leaving the show, John Belushi and Dan Aykroyd a good example. In
addition, we did have the big Three Stooges revival in the late
eighties. I think what hurt classic comedy was the big anti-Black and
white films move by local networks, by the early nineties these films
had pretty much vanished from the air waves, and let us not forget
about the whole "Colorization" faze. As of today, many young kids are
not even interested in anything made before they were born. Comedy is
always changing from decade to decade, but now it is up to us to
introduce and educate future generations the works of the great comics
who have long left us. Thank goodness for DVD's.

Cartoonguy

[Frank J. Lhota]

Post by ***@aol.com
Why it is true the college campuses did abandon the Marx Brothers and
W.C. Fields around the time SNL debuted in 1975, I really feel that
the show had nothing to with that.

Throughout most of history, the popular culture of the previous decades is
rejected by the younger generation. Certainly this was true in Hollywood's
golden era. By the 1930's, the popular music and slang of the 1920's were
derided in films and radio shows as "corny". In the 1936 film "The Singing
Kid", Al Jolson parodied his old style of performing, a concession to the
fact that the act that made him famous was now considered passé. Less than a
decade before "The Singing Kid", Jolson was making a huge hit both on stage
and on film, performing the "Mammy" songs he lampooned in this film!

I hate to say this, but the true anomaly of the 1970's was the period where
forty year old films became popular again. I'm grateful for this period, but
history indicates that this is an uncommon occurrence. And while SNL does
have its faults, it was not responsible for the inevitable end of the
nostalgia trend.
--
"All things extant in this world,
Gods of Heaven, gods of Earth,
Let everything be as it should be;
Thus shall it be!"
- Magical chant from "Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi"

"Drizzle, Drazzle, Drozzle, Drome,
Time for this one to come home!"
- Mr. Wizard from "Tooter Turtle"

[[e-mail]]

Post by Eric Perlin
Buster Keaton is responsible for the demise of interest in classic movie comedy.
According to author/film historian Jim Neibaur, the premiere of Saturday Night
Live in 1975 is responsible for a sharp decline of interest in classic movie
comedy among young people, and SNL muscled its way onto the scene, replacing all
the classics with a new brand of so-called "hip" comedy. A few years after
Saturday Night Live debuted, college campuses completely abandoned W.C. Fields,
the Marx Brothers, and the rest of the classic comedians. Jim Neibaur sees a
correlation.
Of course, Saturday Night Live did not really come out of nowhere. Like
everything else, Saturday Night Live was influenced by things that came before
it.
Buster Keaton often used surreal, impossible sight gags in his films, which
clearly influenced Ernie Kovacs decades later.
Ernie Kovacs' tendency to violate all the conventions and go for weird and
bizarre imagery had a noticeable influence on Monty Python's Flying Circus years
later.
The edgy, often risqué nature of Monty Python's Flying Circus was a major
influence on the writers and cast of Saturday Night Live. In fact, the TV movie
"The Rutles: All You Need is Cash" was clearly a collaborative effort of several
members of both Monty Python and Saturday Night Live.
Summary: Keaton begat Kovacs; Kocacs begat Monty Python; and Monty Python begat
Saturday Night Live.
Anyhow, if Saturday Night Live is to blame for the decline of interest in
classic old comedy, then anything that influenced Saturday Night Live is also to
blame. Therefore, the lack of interest in classic comedy among contemporary
audiences is the fault of Buster Keaton.

Why it is true the college campuses did abandon the Marx Brothers and
W.C. Fields around the time SNL debuted in 1975, I really feel that
the show had nothing to with that.
Saturday Night Live was not an overnight hit, it took little while to
find its audience, and then lost many when original cast members start
leaving the show, John Belushi and Dan Aykroyd a good example. In
addition, we did have the big Three Stooges revival in the late
eighties. I think what hurt classic comedy was the big anti-Black and
white films move by local networks, by the early nineties these films
had pretty much vanished from the air waves, and let us not forget
about the whole "Colorization" faze. As of today, many young kids are
not even interested in anything made before they were born. Comedy is
always changing from decade to decade, but now it is up to us to
introduce and educate future generations the works of the great comics
who have long left us. Thank goodness for DVD's.

Cartoonguy

[sir michael cat]

Post by Eric Perlin
Buster Keaton is responsible for the demise of interest in classic movie comedy.
According to author/film historian Jim Neibaur, the premiere of Saturday Night
Live in 1975 is responsible for a sharp decline of interest in classic movie
comedy among young people, and SNL muscled its way onto the scene, replacing all
the classics with a new brand of so-called "hip" comedy. A few years after
Saturday Night Live debuted, college campuses completely abandoned W.C. Fields,
the Marx Brothers, and the rest of the classic comedians. Jim Neibaur sees a
correlation.
Of course, Saturday Night Live did not really come out of nowhere. Like
everything else, Saturday Night Live was influenced by things that came before
it.
Buster Keaton often used surreal, impossible sight gags in his films, which
clearly influenced Ernie Kovacs decades later.
Ernie Kovacs' tendency to violate all the conventions and go for weird and
bizarre imagery had a noticeable influence on Monty Python's Flying Circus years
later.
The edgy, often risqué nature of Monty Python's Flying Circus was a major
influence on the writers and cast of Saturday Night Live. In fact, the TV movie
"The Rutles: All You Need is Cash" was clearly a collaborative effort of several
members of both Monty Python and Saturday Night Live.
Summary: Keaton begat Kovacs; Kocacs begat Monty Python; and Monty Python begat
Saturday Night Live.
Anyhow, if Saturday Night Live is to blame for the decline of interest in
classic old comedy, then anything that influenced Saturday Night Live is also to
blame. Therefore, the lack of interest in classic comedy among contemporary
audiences is the fault of Buster Keaton.

Attaching the label "classic comedy" seems to be a first step in
demise of interest. Display of superior scholarly analysis does not
attract my interest. If I am told that an old comedy film was very
popular in its day, I am interested and there is the mystery and the
anticipation of enjoyment., I never tackle a comedy film as a problem
to be solved.

[Kimba W. Lion]

Post by Eric Perlin
According to author/film historian Jim Neibaur, the premiere of Saturday Night
Live in 1975 is responsible for a sharp decline of interest in classic movie
comedy among young people

I wish I knew what this referred to, so my answer might make more sense,
but as stated here I'd have to disagree wholeheartedly. The 70s revivial
of Fields, Marx Brothers, and many others was part of the nostalgia craze
at the time. It's a recurring phenomenon, and that decade was due to
revisite the 20s and 30s. Nobody had paid any attention to those decades
for quite some time, and so the classic comedies seemed new and fresh. It
was a fad, a short-term event, and was going to fade anyway. If SNL
happened to start during the fade time, it was just coincidence.

The overabundance of media and the extensions of copyright terms have made
the recurring nostalgia phenomenon far less evident than it once was. Now
you can see it mostly in terms of ephemera prices on ebay.

[Brooklyn]

Post by Kimba W. Lion

Post by Eric Perlin
According to author/film historian Jim Neibaur, the premiere of Saturday Night
Live in 1975 is responsible for a sharp decline of interest in classic movie
comedy among young people

I wish I knew what this referred to, so my answer might make more sense,
but as stated here I'd have to disagree wholeheartedly. The 70s revivial
of Fields, Marx Brothers, and many others was part of the nostalgia craze
at the time. It's a recurring phenomenon, and that decade was due to
revisite the 20s and 30s. Nobody had paid any attention to those decades
for quite some time, and so the classic comedies seemed new and fresh. It
was a fad, a short-term event, and was going to fade anyway. If SNL
happened to start during the fade time, it was just coincidence.
The overabundance of media and the extensions of copyright terms have made
the recurring nostalgia phenomenon far less evident than it once was. Now
you can see it mostly in terms of ephemera prices on ebay.

I agree the 70s kind of brought back the classics. Fridays nights (I
think :)) had a show called "Reel Camp". Everyone I knew loved watching
that. Laurel and Hardy, Leon Errol, Edgar Kennedy - mostly Kennedy and
Errol though. The Honeymooners also..

[Kingo Gondo]

Post by Eric Perlin
Buster Keaton is responsible for the demise of interest in classic movie comedy.
According to author/film historian Jim Neibaur, the premiere of Saturday Night
Live in 1975 is responsible for a sharp decline of interest in classic movie
comedy among young people, and SNL muscled its way onto the scene, replacing all
the classics with a new brand of so-called "hip" comedy. A few years after
Saturday Night Live debuted, college campuses completely abandoned W.C. Fields,
the Marx Brothers, and the rest of the classic comedians. Jim Neibaur sees a
correlation.

I like Jim, but having read his posts in ramp-f for many years, it is
obvious he has a problem with the fact that the world of popular culture did
not stop sometime around 1945. While he certainly can find films thereafter
he appreciates greatly, the incessant fingerpointing for the "decline and
decay from a Golden Age" narrative gets tiresome (and it should be--it's
been tossed around since the time of Ancient Greece).

We all have our burdens, this is one of his.

[JLN]

Post by Kingo Gondo

Post by Eric Perlin
Buster Keaton is responsible for the demise of interest in classic movie comedy.
According to author/film historian Jim Neibaur, the premiere of Saturday Night
Live in 1975 is responsible for a sharp decline of interest in classic movie
comedy among young people, and SNL muscled its way onto the scene, replacing all
the classics with a new brand of so-called "hip" comedy. A few years after
Saturday Night Live debuted, college campuses completely abandoned W.C. Fields,
the Marx Brothers, and the rest of the classic comedians. Jim Neibaur sees a
correlation.

I like Jim,

(blush)

Post by Kingo Gondo
but having read his posts in ramp-f for many years, it is
obvious he has a problem with the fact that the world of popular culture did
not stop sometime around 1945.

I don't think pop culture ended in 1945, I just equate SNL rap music
-- both are very influential, made a huge impact, but they pretty much
obliterated the things I do like.

Post by Kingo Gondo
While he certainly can find films thereafter
he appreciates greatly, the incessant fingerpointing for the "decline and
decay from a Golden Age" narrative gets tiresome (and it should be--it's
been tossed around since the time of Ancient Greece).

Lots of things were tossed around in Anicent Greece (rimshot)

I like classic film. There are people who like classical music, but
you do not expect them to also champion American Idol.

Post by Kingo Gondo
We all have our burdens, this is one of his.

My latest burden seems to be popularity.

Lemme alone yous guys!

JN

[Kingo Gondo]

Post by JLN

Post by Kingo Gondo

Post by Eric Perlin
Buster Keaton is responsible for the demise of interest in classic

movie

Post by JLN

Post by Kingo Gondo

Post by Eric Perlin
comedy.
According to author/film historian Jim Neibaur, the premiere of

Saturday

Post by JLN

Post by Kingo Gondo

Post by Eric Perlin
Night
Live in 1975 is responsible for a sharp decline of interest in classic movie
comedy among young people, and SNL muscled its way onto the scene, replacing all
the classics with a new brand of so-called "hip" comedy. A few years after
Saturday Night Live debuted, college campuses completely abandoned

W.C.

Post by JLN

Post by Kingo Gondo

Post by Eric Perlin
Fields,
the Marx Brothers, and the rest of the classic comedians. Jim Neibaur

sees

Post by JLN

Post by Kingo Gondo

Post by Eric Perlin
a
correlation.

I like Jim,

(blush)

Post by Kingo Gondo
but having read his posts in ramp-f for many years, it is
obvious he has a problem with the fact that the world of popular culture did
not stop sometime around 1945.

I don't think pop culture ended in 1945,

No, I meant you regret that it did NOT stop in 1945 (this was a polite way
of calling you an old fart).

Post by JLN
I just equate SNL rap music

Hmmmm...that's a first.

By the way, there was some excellent rap music early on (the 80s). Can't
comment on anything recent (this is a polite way of calling ME an old fart).

Post by JLN
-- both are very influential, made a huge impact, but they pretty much
obliterated the things I do like.

Post by Kingo Gondo
While he certainly can find films thereafter
he appreciates greatly, the incessant fingerpointing for the "decline and
decay from a Golden Age" narrative gets tiresome (and it should be--it's
been tossed around since the time of Ancient Greece).

Lots of things were tossed around in Anicent Greece (rimshot)
I like classic film. There are people who like classical music, but
you do not expect them to also champion American Idol.

Post by Kingo Gondo
We all have our burdens, this is one of his.

My latest burden seems to be popularity.
Lemme alone yous guys!
JN

Good to see you again, Jim!

[JLN]

Post by Kingo Gondo

I just equate SNL with rap music

Hmmmm...that's a first.

No, I always called SNL the rap music of comedy.

Post by Kingo Gondo
By the way, there was some excellent rap music early on (the 80s). Can't
comment on anything recent (this is a polite way of calling ME an old fart).

My iPod includes some Afrika Bambaata, Public Enemy, NWA, Grandmaster
Flash, Geto Boys, et. al., so I realize rap has been around long
enough to have a classic period of its own. But it isn't my thing any
more than SNL is (having those songs on the iPod is the same as having
Caddyshack among my DVDs I guess). I do agree the comedy since SNL
is every bit as good as the music since The Sugarhill Gang. Every
bit.

And I liked Eric Perlin's original post essentially blaming The
General for movies like Big Daddy and Kicking and Screaming. I
thought it was funny. Eric created two posts specifically naming me,
one trying to entice me to join a thread, another blatantly calling me
back to the field. Both worked, which proves he outsmarted me without
trying very hard.

And yes I am an old fart. There is nothing cool about someone closing
in on 50 trying desperately to appear hip by embracing that which does
not interest him (or her). I like some young people things (Jon
Stewart, Stephen Colbert) and don't have any interest in others
(Reality shows where people like Scott Baio attempt to sort out their
lives).

Post by Kingo Gondo
Good to see you again, Jim!

Hello
I must be going
I came to say I cannot stay I must be going
I'm glad I came but just the same I must be going.....

please!

If you want to talk about movies, feel free to email. I'll answer.


JN

[Eric Perlin]

JLN wrote:

} Hello
} I must be going
} I came to say I cannot stay I must be going
} I'm glad I came but just the same I must be going.....

He'll stay a week or two,
He'll stay the summer through,
But I am telling you,
He must be going.

[Kingo Gondo]

Post by JLN

Post by Kingo Gondo

I just equate SNL with rap music

Hmmmm...that's a first.

No, I always called SNL the rap music of comedy.

Post by Kingo Gondo
By the way, there was some excellent rap music early on (the 80s). Can't
comment on anything recent (this is a polite way of calling ME an old fart).

My iPod includes some Afrika Bambaata, Public Enemy, NWA, Grandmaster
Flash, Geto Boys, et. al., so I realize rap has been around long
enough to have a classic period of its own. But it isn't my thing any
more than SNL is (having those songs on the iPod is the same as having
Caddyshack among my DVDs I guess). I do agree the comedy since SNL
is every bit as good as the music since The Sugarhill Gang. Every
bit.
And I liked Eric Perlin's original post essentially blaming The
General for movies like Big Daddy and Kicking and Screaming. I
thought it was funny. Eric created two posts specifically naming me,
one trying to entice me to join a thread, another blatantly calling me
back to the field. Both worked, which proves he outsmarted me without
trying very hard.
And yes I am an old fart. There is nothing cool about someone closing
in on 50 trying desperately to appear hip by embracing that which does
not interest him (or her). I like some young people things (Jon
Stewart, Stephen Colbert) and don't have any interest in others
(Reality shows where people like Scott Baio attempt to sort out their
lives).

Post by Kingo Gondo
Good to see you again, Jim!

Hello
I must be going
I came to say I cannot stay I must be going
I'm glad I came but just the same I must be going.....

Is this from an old movie or something?

Post by JLN
please!
If you want to talk about movies, feel free to email. I'll answer.
JN

Well, I shall miss you, regardless. We old farts need to stick together.

[A]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by Kingo Gondo

Post by JLN

Post by Kingo Gondo

I just equate SNL with rap music

Hmmmm...that's a first.

No, I always called SNL the rap music of comedy.

Post by Kingo Gondo
By the way, there was some excellent rap music early on (the 80s). Can't
comment on anything recent (this is a polite way of calling ME an old

fart).

Post by JLN
My iPod includes some Afrika Bambaata, Public Enemy, NWA, Grandmaster
Flash, Geto Boys, et. al., so I realize rap has been around long
enough to have a classic period of its own. But it isn't my thing any
more than SNL is (having those songs on the iPod is the same as having
Caddyshack among my DVDs I guess). I do agree the comedy since SNL
is every bit as good as the music since The Sugarhill Gang. Every
bit.
And I liked Eric Perlin's original post essentially blaming The
General for movies like Big Daddy and Kicking and Screaming. I
thought it was funny. Eric created two posts specifically naming me,
one trying to entice me to join a thread, another blatantly calling me
back to the field. Both worked, which proves he outsmarted me without
trying very hard.
And yes I am an old fart. There is nothing cool about someone closing
in on 50 trying desperately to appear hip by embracing that which does
not interest him (or her). I like some young people things (Jon
Stewart, Stephen Colbert) and don't have any interest in others
(Reality shows where people like Scott Baio attempt to sort out their
lives).

Post by Kingo Gondo
Good to see you again, Jim!

Hello
I must be going
I came to say I cannot stay I must be going
I'm glad I came but just the same I must be going.....

Is this from an old movie or something?

"Animal Crackers" (1930).
--Groucho, as 'Capt. Jeffrey Spaulding'

Post by Kingo Gondo

Post by JLN
please!
If you want to talk about movies, feel free to email. I'll answer.
JN

Well, I shall miss you, regardless. We old farts need to stick together.

[Kingo Gondo]

Post by A
x-no-archive: yes

Post by Kingo Gondo

Post by JLN

Post by Kingo Gondo

I just equate SNL with rap music

Hmmmm...that's a first.

No, I always called SNL the rap music of comedy.

Post by Kingo Gondo
By the way, there was some excellent rap music early on (the 80s). Can't
comment on anything recent (this is a polite way of calling ME an old

fart).

Post by JLN
My iPod includes some Afrika Bambaata, Public Enemy, NWA, Grandmaster
Flash, Geto Boys, et. al., so I realize rap has been around long
enough to have a classic period of its own. But it isn't my thing any
more than SNL is (having those songs on the iPod is the same as having
Caddyshack among my DVDs I guess). I do agree the comedy since SNL
is every bit as good as the music since The Sugarhill Gang. Every
bit.
And I liked Eric Perlin's original post essentially blaming The
General for movies like Big Daddy and Kicking and Screaming. I
thought it was funny. Eric created two posts specifically naming me,
one trying to entice me to join a thread, another blatantly calling me
back to the field. Both worked, which proves he outsmarted me without
trying very hard.
And yes I am an old fart. There is nothing cool about someone closing
in on 50 trying desperately to appear hip by embracing that which does
not interest him (or her). I like some young people things (Jon
Stewart, Stephen Colbert) and don't have any interest in others
(Reality shows where people like Scott Baio attempt to sort out their
lives).

Post by Kingo Gondo
Good to see you again, Jim!

Hello
I must be going
I came to say I cannot stay I must be going
I'm glad I came but just the same I must be going.....

Is this from an old movie or something?

"Animal Crackers" (1930).
--Groucho, as 'Capt. Jeffrey Spaulding'

I am sorry--my humor sometimes (usually?) fails to come through on the
internet.

[A]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by Kingo Gondo

Post by A
x-no-archive: yes

Post by Kingo Gondo

Post by JLN

Post by Kingo Gondo

I just equate SNL with rap music

Hmmmm...that's a first.

No, I always called SNL the rap music of comedy.

Post by Kingo Gondo
By the way, there was some excellent rap music early on (the 80s). Can't
comment on anything recent (this is a polite way of calling ME an old

fart).

Post by JLN
My iPod includes some Afrika Bambaata, Public Enemy, NWA, Grandmaster
Flash, Geto Boys, et. al., so I realize rap has been around long
enough to have a classic period of its own. But it isn't my thing any
more than SNL is (having those songs on the iPod is the same as having
Caddyshack among my DVDs I guess). I do agree the comedy since SNL
is every bit as good as the music since The Sugarhill Gang. Every
bit.
And I liked Eric Perlin's original post essentially blaming The
General for movies like Big Daddy and Kicking and Screaming. I
thought it was funny. Eric created two posts specifically naming me,
one trying to entice me to join a thread, another blatantly calling me
back to the field. Both worked, which proves he outsmarted me without
trying very hard.
And yes I am an old fart. There is nothing cool about someone closing
in on 50 trying desperately to appear hip by embracing that which does
not interest him (or her). I like some young people things (Jon
Stewart, Stephen Colbert) and don't have any interest in others
(Reality shows where people like Scott Baio attempt to sort out their
lives).

Post by Kingo Gondo
Good to see you again, Jim!

Hello
I must be going
I came to say I cannot stay I must be going
I'm glad I came but just the same I must be going.....

Is this from an old movie or something?

"Animal Crackers" (1930).
--Groucho, as 'Capt. Jeffrey Spaulding'

I am sorry--my humor sometimes (usually?) fails to come through on the
internet.

N/P. I wasn't taking any chances, in case you were serious.

[G***@san.rr.com]

I think rap actually can be traced back to Gil Scott Herron, which I did not
discover until c. 1972, when a pirate radio station in W. Lafayette, Indiana
[i.e., Purdue], started playing The Revolution Will Not Be Televised....

2dAct

Post by Kingo Gondo

Post by JLN

Post by Kingo Gondo

I just equate SNL with rap music

Hmmmm...that's a first.

No, I always called SNL the rap music of comedy.

Post by Kingo Gondo
By the way, there was some excellent rap music early on (the 80s). Can't
comment on anything recent (this is a polite way of calling ME an old

fart).

Post by JLN
My iPod includes some Afrika Bambaata, Public Enemy, NWA, Grandmaster
Flash, Geto Boys, et. al., so I realize rap has been around long
enough to have a classic period of its own. But it isn't my thing any
more than SNL is (having those songs on the iPod is the same as having
Caddyshack among my DVDs I guess). I do agree the comedy since SNL
is every bit as good as the music since The Sugarhill Gang. Every
bit.
And I liked Eric Perlin's original post essentially blaming The
General for movies like Big Daddy and Kicking and Screaming. I
thought it was funny. Eric created two posts specifically naming me,
one trying to entice me to join a thread, another blatantly calling me
back to the field. Both worked, which proves he outsmarted me without
trying very hard.
And yes I am an old fart. There is nothing cool about someone closing
in on 50 trying desperately to appear hip by embracing that which does
not interest him (or her). I like some young people things (Jon
Stewart, Stephen Colbert) and don't have any interest in others
(Reality shows where people like Scott Baio attempt to sort out their
lives).

Post by Kingo Gondo
Good to see you again, Jim!

Hello
I must be going
I came to say I cannot stay I must be going
I'm glad I came but just the same I must be going.....

Is this from an old movie or something?

Post by JLN
please!
If you want to talk about movies, feel free to email. I'll answer.
JN

Well, I shall miss you, regardless. We old farts need to stick together.

[Kingo Gondo]

Post by G***@san.rr.com
I think rap actually can be traced back to Gil Scott Herron, which I did
not discover until c. 1972, when a pirate radio station in W. Lafayette,
Indiana [i.e., Purdue], started playing The Revolution Will Not Be
Televised....

Great song, although The Last Poets may have beat him to the punch on the
roots of rap.

[Roger the Saurus]

Post by Kingo Gondo

Post by G***@san.rr.com
I think rap actually can be traced back to Gil Scott Herron, which I did
not discover until c. 1972, when a pirate radio station in W. Lafayette,
Indiana [i.e., Purdue], started playing The Revolution Will Not Be
Televised....

Great song, although The Last Poets may have beat him to the punch on the
roots of rap.

Chuck Berry was the first rap artist to enter my consciousness

[Frank J. Lhota]

Post by G***@san.rr.com
I think rap actually can be traced back to Gil Scott Herron, which I did not
discover until c. 1972, when a pirate radio station in W. Lafayette, Indiana
[i.e., Purdue], started playing The Revolution Will Not Be Televised....

I think the first rap song was "Zilch" from the Monkees album
"Headquarters".
--
"All things extant in this world,
Gods of Heaven, gods of Earth,
Let everything be as it should be;
Thus shall it be!"
- Magical chant from "Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi"

"Drizzle, Drazzle, Drozzle, Drome,
Time for this one to come home!"
- Mr. Wizard from "Tooter Turtle"

[A]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by Frank J. Lhota

Post by G***@san.rr.com
I think rap actually can be traced back to Gil Scott Herron, which I did
not discover until c. 1972, when a pirate radio station in W. Lafayette,
Indiana [i.e., Purdue], started playing The Revolution Will Not Be
Televised....

I think the first rap song was "Zilch" from the Monkees album
"Headquarters".

I was just thinking that their "Tapioca Tundra" had that kind of
rap rhythm, but certainly not the music nor lyrics.

Post by Frank J. Lhota
--
"All things extant in this world,
Gods of Heaven, gods of Earth,
Let everything be as it should be;
Thus shall it be!"
- Magical chant from "Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi"
"Drizzle, Drazzle, Drozzle, Drome,
Time for this one to come home!"
- Mr. Wizard from "Tooter Turtle"

Didn't Mr. Wizard die recently? <g>

[R H Draney]

Post by Frank J. Lhota

Post by G***@san.rr.com
I think rap actually can be traced back to Gil Scott Herron, which I did not
discover until c. 1972, when a pirate radio station in W. Lafayette, Indiana
[i.e., Purdue], started playing The Revolution Will Not Be Televised....

I think the first rap song was "Zilch" from the Monkees album
"Headquarters".

Pretty sure you have to go back further...Phil Harris, maybe....r

[A]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by JLN

Post by Kingo Gondo

I just equate SNL with rap music

Hmmmm...that's a first.

No, I always called SNL the rap music of comedy.

Post by Kingo Gondo
By the way, there was some excellent rap music early on (the 80s). Can't
comment on anything recent (this is a polite way of calling ME an old fart).

My iPod includes some Afrika Bambaata, Public Enemy, NWA, Grandmaster
Flash, Geto Boys, et. al., so I realize rap has been around long
enough to have a classic period of its own. But it isn't my thing any
more than SNL is (having those songs on the iPod is the same as having
Caddyshack among my DVDs I guess). I do agree the comedy since SNL
is every bit as good as the music since The Sugarhill Gang. Every
bit.
And I liked Eric Perlin's original post essentially blaming The
General for movies like Big Daddy and Kicking and Screaming. I
thought it was funny. Eric created two posts specifically naming me,
one trying to entice me to join a thread, another blatantly calling me
back to the field. Both worked, which proves he outsmarted me without
trying very hard.
And yes I am an old fart. There is nothing cool about someone closing
in on 50

Poor baby! Not even 50, and he's already complaining.
Wait until you get to be 55, Jim. <lol>

Post by JLN
trying desperately to appear hip by embracing that which does
not interest him (or her). I like some young people things (Jon
Stewart, Stephen Colbert) and don't have any interest in others
(Reality shows where people like Scott Baio attempt to sort out their
lives).

Good for you, I agree!

Post by JLN

Post by Kingo Gondo
Good to see you again, Jim!

Me, too--most of the time. <g>

Post by JLN
Hello
I must be going
I came to say I cannot stay I must be going
I'm glad I came but just the same I must be going.....

La-la!
But if you go away, you'll spoil this party I am throwing!

I'll stay a week or two, I'll stay the summer through.
But I am telling you, I must be...go-ing!

Post by JLN
please!
If you want to talk about movies, feel free to email. I'll answer.

[Roger the Saurus]

Post by JLN
And yes I am an old fart. There is nothing cool about someone closing
in on 50 trying desperately to appear hip

Closing in on 50 from which direction?

[Kingo Gondo]

Post by Roger the Saurus

Post by JLN
And yes I am an old fart. There is nothing cool about someone closing
in on 50 trying desperately to appear hip

Closing in on 50 from which direction?

I just assumed he was referring to a hexadecimal number.

[Pete The Upstart]

Post by JLN

Post by Kingo Gondo

I just equate SNL with rap music

Hmmmm...that's a first.

No, I always called SNL the rap music of comedy.

Post by Kingo Gondo
By the way, there was some excellent rap music early on (the 80s). Can't
comment on anything recent (this is a polite way of calling ME an old fart).

My iPod includes some Afrika Bambaata, Public Enemy, NWA, Grandmaster
Flash, Geto Boys, et. al., so I realize rap has been around long
enough to have a classic period of its own. But it isn't my thing any
more than SNL is (having those songs on the iPod is the same as having
Caddyshack among my DVDs I guess). I do agree the comedy since SNL
is every bit as good as the music since The Sugarhill Gang. Every
bit.

Speaking of music, I've always liked Spirit In The Sky by Norman
Greenbaum.

[Lincoln Spector]

Post by JLN
And yes I am an old fart. There is nothing cool about someone closing
in on 50 trying desperately to appear hip by embracing that which does
not interest him (or her). I like some young people things (Jon
Stewart, Stephen Colbert) and don't have any interest in others
(Reality shows where people like Scott Baio attempt to sort out their
lives).

I'm well passed 50, and I was young when SNL started out.

It's absurd to say it "killed" classic comedy. Things change; styles change.
The past looks better because we tend to compare the best of the past with
everything that comes out today; blinding us to the fact that good stuff was
as much an exception then as it is today.

To my mind, American film comedy hit the skids around 1950 and didn't pick
up again until SNL came around. Sure, there were good American comedies in
the 50s and 60s, but not nearly as many as in the 20s and 30s.

Lincoln

[bpnjensen]

Buster Keaton is responsible for the demise of interest in classic movie comedy.<
many good things snipped<

Not much to say, except thanks for this excellent parody/satire on the
inner workings of the mind of an entertainment-critic-cum-
psychoanalyst! LOL!

Bruce Jensen

[G***@mindspring.com]

Post by Eric Perlin
Buster Keaton is responsible for the demise of interest in classic movie comedy.
According to author/film historian Jim Neibaur, the premiere of Saturday Night
Live in 1975 is responsible for a sharp decline of interest in classic movie
comedy among young people, and SNL muscled its way onto the scene, replacing all
the classics with a new brand of so-called "hip" comedy. A few years after
Saturday Night Live debuted, college campuses completely abandoned W.C. Fields,
the Marx Brothers, and the rest of the classic comedians. Jim Neibaur sees a
correlation.
Of course, Saturday Night Live did not really come out of nowhere. Like
everything else, Saturday Night Live was influenced by things that came before
it.
Buster Keaton often used surreal, impossible sight gags in his films, which
clearly influenced Ernie Kovacs decades later.
Ernie Kovacs' tendency to violate all the conventions and go for weird and
bizarre imagery had a noticeable influence on Monty Python's Flying Circus years
later.
The edgy, often risqué nature of Monty Python's Flying Circus was a major
influence on the writers and cast of Saturday Night Live. In fact, the TV movie
"The Rutles: All You Need is Cash" was clearly a collaborative effort of several
members of both Monty Python and Saturday Night Live.
Summary: Keaton begat Kovacs; Kocacs begat Monty Python; and Monty Python begat
Saturday Night Live.
Anyhow, if Saturday Night Live is to blame for the decline of interest in
classic old comedy, then anything that influenced Saturday Night Live is also to
blame. Therefore, the lack of interest in classic comedy among contemporary
audiences is the fault of Buster Keaton.

How about this for a made-up theory with no evidence? Namely, that
nothing killed classic comedy. What has happened since 1975 is an
explosion on the entertainment options available, and a corresponding
increase in the amount of stuff that has to fill it. There's probably
more entertainment produced in one day on cable TV today than in an
entire year of Hollywood movies in 1920. (Although I have no data on
that. I just made it up.) So classic comedy is just a much smaller
portion of what's out there. It's available on DVD (much more so than
ever before), a whole lot more people have access to it than did
previously, and a lot more people watch it, but there's a lot of other
stuff on top of it. That's about it.

[Pete The Upstart]

Post by Eric Perlin
Buster Keaton is responsible for the demise of interest in classic movie comedy.

No he isn't.

[Paige]

Post by Pete The Upstart

Post by Eric Perlin
Buster Keaton is responsible for the demise of interest in classic movie comedy.

No he isn't.

You're right, Pete. Classic comedy isn't dead. But *IF* it were,
(hypothetically speaking) Keaton wouldn't have been the one to kill
it.

Paige

[R H Draney]

Post by Paige

Post by Eric Perlin

Post by Eric Perlin
Buster Keaton is responsible for the demise of interest in classic movie

comedy.
No he isn't.

You're right, Pete. Classic comedy isn't dead. But *IF* it were,
(hypothetically speaking) Keaton wouldn't have been the one to kill
it.

Can we please have *one* thread that doesn't lead to Carrot Top?...r

[Pete The Upstart]

Post by R H Draney

Post by Paige

Post by Eric Perlin

Post by Eric Perlin
Buster Keaton is responsible for the demise of interest in classic movie

comedy.
No he isn't.

You're right, Pete. Classic comedy isn't dead. But *IF* it were,
(hypothetically speaking) Keaton wouldn't have been the one to kill
it.

Can we please have *one* thread that doesn't lead to Carrot Top?...r

Such a sad pale imitation of Harpo...............

[MJ]

Post by Pete The Upstart

Post by R H Draney
Can we please have *one* thread that doesn't lead to Carrot Top?...r

Such a sad pale imitation of Harpo

I've heard that said before. I don't get it. If there's anyone he's
trying to model, it's Ed Wynn. Of course, we all know Wynn from the TV
show, but his Vaudeville act, and what got him noticed, was a prop
act. George Burns, in one of his books, talks about parts of the
routine, and it sounds hilarious!

I don't know if Mr. Thompson is at all aware of Mr. Wynn. My guess is
that his act, like all other successful acts, was influenced by many
factors, including others who were influenced by Wynn several
generations down the line. Likewise, Wynn surely had influences, as
well.

If there is any merit to my statements, then the SNL group that is
currently taking a beating here is a product of what came before it.
The "Your Show Of Shows" influence is without question, but that's not
where it ends. Read Sid's book. Then we can go back to Keaton. But it
still doesn't end there. Rest assured, we will never discover the
starting point.

[Eric Perlin]

Pete The Upstart wrote:

} No he isn't.

Of course he wasn't; he was PART of classic comedy. The title of my post was not
meant to be taken literally.

Please read the actual message I posted.

[r***@yahoo.com]

Post by Eric Perlin
Buster Keaton is responsible for the demise of interest in classic movie comedy.
According to author/film historian Jim Neibaur, the premiere of Saturday Night
Live in 1975 is responsible for a sharp decline of interest in classic movie
comedy among young people, and SNL muscled its way onto the scene, replacing all
the classics with a new brand of so-called "hip" comedy. A few years after
Saturday Night Live debuted, college campuses completely abandoned W.C. Fields,
the Marx Brothers, and the rest of the classic comedians. Jim Neibaur sees a
correlation.
Of course, Saturday Night Live did not really come out of nowhere. Like
everything else, Saturday Night Live was influenced by things that came before
it.
Buster Keaton often used surreal, impossible sight gags in his films, which
clearly influenced Ernie Kovacs decades later.
Ernie Kovacs' tendency to violate all the conventions and go for weird and
bizarre imagery had a noticeable influence on Monty Python's Flying Circus years
later.
It's Adam and Eve's fault for doing all that begatting....

Rich

Post by Eric Perlin
The edgy, often risqué nature of Monty Python's Flying Circus was a major
influence on the writers and cast of Saturday Night Live. In fact, the TV movie
"The Rutles: All You Need is Cash" was clearly a collaborative effort of several
members of both Monty Python and Saturday Night Live.
Summary: Keaton begat Kovacs; Kocacs begat Monty Python; and Monty Python begat
Saturday Night Live.
Anyhow, if Saturday Night Live is to blame for the decline of interest in
classic old comedy, then anything that influenced Saturday Night Live is also to
blame. Therefore, the lack of interest in classic comedy among contemporary
audiences is the fault of Buster Keaton.

[Alan Glick]

It's faulty logic to say that "ANYTHING" that influenced SNL is
responsible for the effects of SNL.
SNL may not be the primary cause for the decline of interest in classic
comedy, but it is a symptom of a larger cause: a popular culture whose mode
is designed for those with limited attention spans; and whose primary
interests are toilet humor, a juvenile view of sexuality, and a pc hatred
for pre-60's culture.
Alan Glick

"Eric Perlin" <***@SPAMSUCKSoptonline.net> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
<Anyhow, if Saturday Night Live is to blame for the decline of interest in
classic old comedy, then anything that influenced Saturday Night Live is
also to
blame. >

[Paige]

Post by Alan Glick
It's faulty logic to say that "ANYTHING" that influenced SNL is
responsible for the effects of SNL.
SNL may not be the primary cause for the decline of interest in classic
comedy, but it is a symptom of a larger cause: a popular culture whose mode
is designed for those with limited attention spans; and whose primary
interests are toilet humor, a juvenile view of sexuality, and a pc hatred
for pre-60's culture.
Alan Glick
<Anyhow, if Saturday Night Live is to blame for the decline of interest in
classic old comedy, then anything that influenced Saturday Night Live is also to
blame. >

Interesting take. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think SNL was the
first comedy show (since Laugh-In...and later All in the Family) to
parody pop-culture...with emphasis on political humor. What surprised
me most was that the FCC (or whatever watchdog agency dabbles in media
censorship) allowed the show to be aired in the first place. I
remember when SNL was in its heyday (1970s), cities in some states
banned the show.

Paige