Discussion:
"Them Thar Hiiills" & "Tit for Tat"
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Mike O'Reilly
2009-09-10 22:24:52 UTC
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My most favorite L&H. Where can I get DVDs ?
MJ
2009-09-11 01:57:29 UTC
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Post by Mike O'Reilly
My most favorite L&H. Where can I get DVDs ?
The UK Universal box set. Check Amazon for a good price and make sure
your DVD player is hacked to play Region 2 discs. I'm pretty sure that
one disc has both shorts, but I'm also pretty sure that it isn't
available any longer. Get the set. It's worth it.

-MJ
weary flake
2009-09-13 16:26:50 UTC
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Post by Mike O'Reilly
My most favorite L&H. Where can I get DVDs ?
http://nostalgiafamilyvideo.com/browse2.asp?prodID=4926&Cat=11
MJ
2009-09-15 02:24:18 UTC
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Post by weary flake
Post by Mike O'Reilly
My most favorite L&H. Where can I get DVDs ?
http://nostalgiafamilyvideo.com/browse2.asp?prodID=4926&Cat=11
Ummm... you know that's a bootleg, right?

-MJ
weary flake
2009-09-15 06:34:26 UTC
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Post by MJ
Post by weary flake
Post by Mike O'Reilly
My most favorite L&H. Where can I get DVDs ?
http://nostalgiafamilyvideo.com/browse2.asp?prodID=4926&Cat=11
Ummm... you know that's a bootleg, right?
No, it's perfectly legal.
Derek Gee
2009-09-16 02:33:29 UTC
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Post by weary flake
Post by MJ
Post by weary flake
Post by Mike O'Reilly
My most favorite L&H. Where can I get DVDs ?
http://nostalgiafamilyvideo.com/browse2.asp?prodID=4926&Cat=11
Ummm... you know that's a bootleg, right?
No, it's perfectly legal.
I'd say they're in a legal grey area. You can read the story here:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.comedy.laurel-hardy/browse_thread/thread/d62860a1f6f25e7f/a869b3f9ae8fe4f9?hl=en&q=vs+hallmark+OR+rhi+%22nostalgia+family+video%22&lnk=ol&

Derek
MJ
2009-09-16 04:05:06 UTC
Permalink
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.comedy.laurel-hardy/browse_thread/...
Derek
With all due respect to Derek, the only thing gray about it that I see
is the quality. What should be black & white is gray & off-white. I
bought one of these several years ago. I think it was "Pardon Us." It
looked like one of those early attempts to transfer VHS to the more
stable DVD-R format. The company selling these bootlegs had a huge
catalogue at one time (and a different name). They got busted, but
continue to fly a few non-PD items under the radar.

I suspect it's just one guy running these off on his computer as
orders come in. The cover on the one I had was just a low-grade paper
photocopy. The ads say that these are DVD, but the one I had was
clearly marked on the disc as DVD-R. Cottage industries are wonderful,
but I can't say the same for thieves.

I'm not happy about Hallmark's treatment of the L&H films any more
than anyone else is, but such blatant disregard for the law should not
be encouraged. I would still recommend the Universal set from Europe.
It does have issues. The source material for the silents could have
been better and there are some odd edits in the sound shorts, but the
quality is generally very good and the price (at the moment) is more
than fair. And it's legal.
weary flake
2009-09-16 05:36:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Gee
Post by weary flake
Post by MJ
Post by weary flake
Post by Mike O'Reilly
My most favorite L&H. Where can I get DVDs ?
http://nostalgiafamilyvideo.com/browse2.asp?prodID=4926&Cat=11
Ummm... you know that's a bootleg, right?
No, it's perfectly legal.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.comedy.laurel-hardy/browse_thread/thread/d6
2860a1f6f25e7f/a869b3f9ae8fe4f9?hl=en&q=vs+hallmark+OR+rhi+%22nostalgia+family
+video%22&lnk=ol&
That thread reassures me that NFV is legal. Clods who claim that
DVD-Rs are illegal have never bought much old movies. NFV, Grapevine,
Unknown Video, etc., are DVD-Rs and malign stooges for competitors have
been trying for years to soil their name.

What is illegal is to "hack" a dvd player to play different regions.
This is illegal worldwide because it violates licensing rules for DVD
players. So much for "just order your out-of-print Laurel and Hardy
DVDs from Europe and hack a DVD player to play them" instead of ordering
perfectly legal American DVD-Rs, already made to order and ready to ship!
Kimba W Lion
2009-09-16 09:58:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by weary flake
That thread reassures me that NFV is legal. Clods who claim that
DVD-Rs are illegal have never bought much old movies. NFV, Grapevine,
Unknown Video, etc., are DVD-Rs and malign stooges for competitors have
been trying for years to soil their name.
You're right. Besides, I had a couple of the NFV L&H DVD-Rs and I thought they
were excellent quality--not at all like a transfer from VHS.
Post by weary flake
What is illegal is to "hack" a dvd player to play different regions.
Not true at all.
Post by weary flake
This is illegal worldwide
The Australian government has said that region coding is an illegal restraint
of trade.
Post by weary flake
So much for "just order your out-of-print Laurel and Hardy
DVDs from Europe and hack a DVD player to play them" instead of ordering
perfectly legal American DVD-Rs, already made to order and ready to ship!
There is no reason to avoid small companies that release films on DVD-R. That
is the only economical way a small company can work. There is also no reason
to avoid ordering foreign DVDs when the same item is not available
domestically. Just make sure there is a simple way to unlock your DVD player.

There is an advantage to getting a US-made DVD when it's available: Sound
films are transferred at the proper 24 fps; DVDs made for PAL countries run
the films at 25 fps.
--
Intelligent Life Is All Around Us
http://intelligentlife.info/
weary flake
2009-09-16 17:29:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kimba W Lion
Post by weary flake
That thread reassures me that NFV is legal. Clods who claim that
DVD-Rs are illegal have never bought much old movies. NFV, Grapevine,
Unknown Video, etc., are DVD-Rs and malign stooges for competitors have
been trying for years to soil their name.
You're right. Besides, I had a couple of the NFV L&H DVD-Rs and I thought they
were excellent quality--not at all like a transfer from VHS.
Nostalgia Family Video, Grapevine Video, Unknown Video have been in
business for years, and they're part of the good guys, and I suggest
the jerks who constantly state they are crooked are stooging for
shady competitors, the Platinum Passports, Sinister Cinema, Reel
Classics, Mill Creek, you know, the kind that steal product and then
burn their logos into the picture, cause only those who steal product
would do such a thing.

NFV is not reliable catalog-wide, as far as quality, but neither is
Kino: ever see their VHS edition of the soviet film "Happiness"? But
the Kino edition of Happiness is better than nothing! (rock solid
subtitles with a violently shaking picture.)
Post by Kimba W Lion
Post by weary flake
What is illegal is to "hack" a dvd player to play different regions.
Not true at all.
To be more accurate, it is illegal to supply a DVD player that doesn't
obey region coding.
Post by Kimba W Lion
Post by weary flake
This is illegal worldwide
The Australian government has said that region coding is an illegal restraint
of trade.
Glad that Australiavoices some dissent to region-coding, but
manufacturers are still bound to comply with DVD-player licenses to
obey region coding, user prohibitions, etc.
Post by Kimba W Lion
Post by weary flake
So much for "just order your out-of-print Laurel and Hardy
DVDs from Europe and hack a DVD player to play them" instead of ordering
perfectly legal American DVD-Rs, already made to order and ready to ship!
There is no reason to avoid small companies that release films on DVD-R. That
is the only economical way a small company can work. There is also no reason
to avoid ordering foreign DVDs when the same item is not available
domestically. Just make sure there is a simple way to unlock your DVD player.
There is an advantage to getting a US-made DVD when it's available: Sound
films are transferred at the proper 24 fps; DVDs made for PAL countries run
the films at 25 fps.
US made DVDs are no guarentee that foreign films are at the right speed
and vice-versa. Lotta junky transfers out there, and old movie buffs
see it.
MJ
2009-09-16 20:30:20 UTC
Permalink
This weary flake guy likes to throw accusations around, doesn't he?
He's over on one of the Grateful Dead forums complaining about iTunes,
now. They've finally started recognizing show tracks. It's a very good
thing to have happen (we've been requesting it for years), so Flakey
is angry, of course. What a time to discover that I don't have the
"ignore" button on my Usenet service anymore.

Anyway, Mr. Flake, I realize that you've only been on Usenet for less
than a year, so you don't know me. I absolutely promise you, I do not
work for any of your competing video duplication services. I lovingly
suggest you go get an extra large order of Burger King Apple Fries,
find a comfortable chair, pop in a bootleg Simpsons DVD-R and chill.
Kimba W Lion
2009-09-17 00:27:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by weary flake
To be more accurate, it is illegal to supply a DVD player that doesn't
obey region coding.
Substitute "manufacture" for "supply" because there is no reason that unlocked
DVD players can't be sold.

Then you have to drop the word "illegal". There is no law mandating region
coding; it's part of the CSS license agreement.
--
Intelligent Life Is All Around Us
http://intelligentlife.info/
Derek Gee
2009-09-17 02:45:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by weary flake
Post by Derek Gee
Post by weary flake
Post by MJ
Post by weary flake
Post by Mike O'Reilly
My most favorite L&H. Where can I get DVDs ?
http://nostalgiafamilyvideo.com/browse2.asp?prodID=4926&Cat=11
Ummm... you know that's a bootleg, right?
No, it's perfectly legal.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.comedy.laurel-hardy/browse_thread/thread/d6
2860a1f6f25e7f/a869b3f9ae8fe4f9?hl=en&q=vs+hallmark+OR+rhi+%22nostalgia+family
+video%22&lnk=ol&
That thread reassures me that NFV is legal.
That's not how I interpeted the thread. The best one can say without
further info is that Hallmark and Hal Roach Studios were asked to provide
proof that they owned the material in question and declined to do so. Hal
Roach Studios already has one court decision on their side saying they own
the silent material. I have no idea what chain of title Hallmark had then
(RHI is the current rights owner for the US). This does not mean that the
NFV's are legal.

I suspect both companies thought it wasn't worth the expense to continue
their lawsuits against NFV. I'd be curious to know what the sales figures
were for the two DVD's that Hallmark licensed to Lions Gate. A few thousand
at best? I note that HRS never did release the box set of silents that was
promised, and their original DVD's are out of print. If NFV hasn't bothered
to do a pressed run of DVD's (vs DVD-R's), it suggests to me that they don't
sell well enough to support even a small pressing of a couple of thousand
discs.

Derek

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