Discussion:
Regarding L&H On 16mm: 16mm Obsolete/DVD The Way To Go?
(too old to reply)
ScottO
2007-06-10 18:32:49 UTC
Permalink
I've been slowly collecting L&H on 16mm, mostly to show at backyard pool
events and the like, but now with increasing advances in DVDs and DVD
projection, is 16mm obsolete or, even more importantly, unnecessarily
expensive?

Is there anyone out there with a DVD projector who could throw some light on
this subject with their opinion?

Thanks!

ScottO.
Derek
2007-06-10 19:15:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by ScottO
I've been slowly collecting L&H on 16mm, mostly to show at backyard pool
events and the like, but now with increasing advances in DVDs and DVD
projection, is 16mm obsolete or, even more importantly, unnecessarily
expensive?
Is there anyone out there with a DVD projector who could throw some light on
this subject with their opinion?
Thanks!
ScottO.
Since our tent's inception in the mid-70s (Another Fine Mess #19), we
used mostly 8mm then 16mm as a small number of our members expanded
their collections. As a collector you might expect to pay from $40 - $80
for an L&H short depending upon condition, and from $150 up for features
of the boys. I even have a screening room for our meetings with a pair
of B&H projectors for uninterrupted showings. Even at that, we only had
about 60 of the Boys' films to choose from.
However, over the last few years, I began collecting material in DVD
format, and was amazed at the picture quality of material sourced from
35mm. A little over a year ago, I purchased a video projector and
mounted it to the ceiling of our viewing room. I also bought the British
Universal box set and hacked a dvd player to render it region free. We
haven't looked back since. The price difference and inherent picture
quality puts the video projection choice much further ahead of sticking
with 16mm in my opinion.
Derek Petro
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
The Space Boss
2007-06-10 21:07:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek
Post by ScottO
I've been slowly collecting L&H on 16mm, mostly to show at backyard pool
events and the like, but now with increasing advances in DVDs and DVD
projection, is 16mm obsolete or, even more importantly, unnecessarily
expensive?
Is there anyone out there with a DVD projector who could throw some light on
this subject with their opinion?
Thanks!
ScottO.
Since our tent's inception in the mid-70s (Another Fine Mess #19), we
used mostly 8mm then 16mm as a small number of our members expanded
their collections. As a collector you might expect to pay from $40 - $80
for an L&H short depending upon condition, and from $150 up for features
of the boys. I even have a screening room for our meetings with a pair
of B&H projectors for uninterrupted showings. Even at that, we only had
about 60 of the Boys' films to choose from.
However, over the last few years, I began collecting material in DVD
format, and was amazed at the picture quality of material sourced from
35mm. A little over a year ago, I purchased a video projector and
mounted it to the ceiling of our viewing room. I also bought the British
Universal box set and hacked a dvd player to render it region free. We
haven't looked back since. The price difference and inherent picture
quality puts the video projection choice much further ahead of sticking
with 16mm in my opinion.
Derek Petro
--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com
I hope you dvd player has the capability to slow the pitch down a half
a step... mine does. Ciao..
greg o r y
2007-06-11 06:00:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Space Boss
I hope you dvd player has the capability to slow the pitch down a half
a step... mine does. Ciao..
Yeah that PAL transfer nonsense really bugs me too.

Not so noticeable with the action, but the Boys sound like the Chipmunks
when they speak.
The Space Boss
2007-06-11 06:11:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by greg o r y
Post by The Space Boss
I hope you dvd player has the capability to slow the pitch down a half
a step... mine does. Ciao..
Yeah that PAL transfer nonsense really bugs me too.
Not so noticeable with the action, but the Boys sound like the Chipmunks
when they speak.
Well it's fast enough to make a 60 minute film run 56 minutes. Ollie's
voice sounds very unnatural. But again, stepping down the pitch fixes
it right up, everything looks and sounds completely normal.
m***@yahoo.com
2007-06-11 13:34:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Space Boss
Post by greg o r y
Post by The Space Boss
I hope you dvd player has the capability to slow the pitch down a half
a step... mine does. Ciao..
Yeah that PAL transfer nonsense really bugs me too.
Not so noticeable with the action, but the Boys sound like the Chipmunks
when they speak.
Well it's fast enough to make a 60 minute film run 56 minutes. Ollie's
voice sounds very unnatural. But again, stepping down the pitch fixes
it right up, everything looks and sounds completely normal.
I swear I only really notice the difference if I'm going from a NTSC
DVD to a PAL. I'm really used to the speed-up now. Even the theme
song, which used to be obviously higher in pitch.
John
2007-06-11 17:27:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Space Boss
I hope you dvd player has the capability to slow the pitch down a half
a step... mine does. Ciao..
I wasn't aware it was possible to do that. What model DVD player is
this? Thanks!

John
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Please reply in this newsgroup. I never post my true email address to
prevent spam. Thank you.
The Space Boss
2007-06-12 04:58:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
Post by The Space Boss
I hope you dvd player has the capability to slow the pitch down a half
a step... mine does. Ciao..
I wasn't aware it was possible to do that. What model DVD player is
this? Thanks!
John
--
Please reply in this newsgroup. I never post my true email address to
prevent spam. Thank you.
It is a DAEWOO player. If you slow the film down too much, the boys
voices sound like the devil.. moo ha haaaa...
r***@yahoo.com
2007-06-15 14:10:21 UTC
Permalink
OK, I'm a dinosaur, but I just love film. It just seems more natural,
organic, whatever. I even love the sound of the projector, and when I
am watching a *film*, I just feel like I'm at a special event and not
in someone's basement watching a DVD.

I even like watching L&H on Super 8.

And no DVD should ever be screened with the sound and action speeded
up 4%! With L&H timing is everything...Stan would be appalled.

Rob Farr
www.slapsticon.org
Post by ScottO
I've been slowly collecting L&H on 16mm, mostly to show at backyard pool
events and the like, but now with increasing advances in DVDs and DVD
projection, is 16mm obsolete or, even more importantly, unnecessarily
expensive?
Is there anyone out there with a DVD projector who could throw some light on
this subject with their opinion?
Thanks!
ScottO.
Mister Levity
2007-06-15 16:22:51 UTC
Permalink
I hate that clackity-clack-clackity projector sound! It was fun
collecting those B;ackhawk home moves way back when I was a young teen
in the early 70's discovering classic comedies but am so happier
watching them on DVD format now(as I was with LaserDiscs and VHS and
still do). The PAL conversion is never an issue with me personally,
never noticed it and still don't. I am laughing at Stan and Ollie too
much!

Would never go back to film these days. Got boxes of 16mm and Super
8mm prints in I want to unload myself but can't be bothered with those
Ebay people.
r***@aol.com
2007-06-15 19:27:39 UTC
Permalink
I have the Region 2 DVD box. But I seldom look at it. When I want to
watch the boys, I watch film. You can't hold a DVD up to the light!
Mister Levity
2007-06-15 19:36:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@aol.com
You can't hold a DVD up to the light!
Why would anyone want to? When I watch a disc I place mine inside the
DVD player. ;-)
Kimba W. Lion
2007-06-15 16:48:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@yahoo.com
OK, I'm a dinosaur, but I just love film. It just seems more natural,
organic, whatever. I even love the sound of the projector, and when I
am watching a *film*, I just feel like I'm at a special event and not
in someone's basement watching a DVD.
I even like watching L&H on Super 8.
I'm with you. Film is special, more "real" somehow, and the mechanics of
showing film is somehow reverential to the specialness of film.

But DVD has given me access to more films than I could ever afford on
film. And with an HDTV, the picture is sharper than the average 16mm dupe,
even if the "depth" of a film image is lacking.
Post by r***@yahoo.com
And no DVD should ever be screened with the sound and action speeded
up 4%! With L&H timing is everything...Stan would be appalled.
Current DVD players do a better job of converting PAL to NTSC than did the
mega-expensive pro equipment of just a few years ago. It simply must be
possible nowadays to slow the PAL video down to proper speed during
conversion, yet I don't know of any player that does this. I can only
suppose a couple of reasons for this:

Inability to market such a feature. After all, we in NTSC countries are
not *supposed* to be playing PAL discs. They're not made for our "region"
y'know. People in PAL countries constantly say the PAL speedup never
bothers them (I don't know how they can stand the audio difference,
though).

Fear of consumer confusion. Movies need to be slowed down, TV shows do
not. I don't think the switching could be done automatically in the
player.

It was less than 10 years ago that I spend a few hundred dollars to have
equipment that could play PAL VHS tapes on my NTSC TV. The results were
acceptable, but just barely. Now, you can get far greater conversion
quality from a $30 DVD player. I'll watch L&H on PAL DVDs because they're
just not available in NTSC. But I hope it's not too unreasonable to keep
hoping for digital speed correction in a future generation of players.
(That seems more likely than a proper NTSC release of L&H.)
Bill Coleman
2007-06-15 20:11:56 UTC
Permalink
"Kimba W. Lion" <kimbawlion> wrote in message
Post by Kimba W. Lion
Current DVD players do a better job of converting PAL to NTSC than did the
mega-expensive pro equipment of just a few years ago. It simply must be
possible nowadays to slow the PAL video down to proper speed during
conversion, yet I don't know of any player that does this. I can only
I don't of any standalone DVD players that do this, but if you have a DVD
player hooked
up to your computer, there are several software programs that will fix it. I
use Intervideo Win DVD, which will not only fix PAL/NTSC speed issues, but
also will do any variable speed with pitch correction, which is nice for
silent movies that have been transferred at an off speed. The trick would be
connecting your computer to your home entertainment system, rather than
watching movies on a smallish computer screen.

Bill Coleman

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