Discussion:
Poll: Who has harmed L&H More--Larry Harmon or Hallmark
(too old to reply)
ScottO
2008-03-24 03:36:47 UTC
Permalink
My guess would be Harmon because didn't he assign the movie rights to
Hallmark?

ScottO.
william...@aol.com
2008-03-24 04:57:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by ScottO
My guess would be Harmon because didn't he assign the movie rights to
Hallmark?
ScottO.
From what I understand is that Larry Harmon never owned the rights to
the (Roach) films, but he is the owner of the licensing rights of the
images of Laurel and Hardy.

Cartoonguy
Larc
2008-03-24 12:32:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by ScottO
My guess would be Harmon because didn't he assign the movie rights to
Hallmark?
Definitely Hallmark for sitting on the L&H films instead of having
them remastered and widely released.

What Hallmark did was very stupid from a business standpoint. They
were evidently holding onto the L&H trove to help their financial
numbers, but allowing the films to do no more than take up space
denied them many thousands of additional dollars they could have
netted. Making the material widely available would have created
additional demand. And additional demand would have increased the
value of Hallmark's L&H holdings.

If Hallmark had handled things correctly, release of L&H films by the
Kirch Group — if it had happened at all — would have created no more
than a footnote in the US.

But in the long run, I doubt either Hallmark or Harmon has done any
permanent damage to L&H.

Larc



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Jimmy Fin
2008-03-26 01:17:08 UTC
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Hallmark.

Harmon released his own crappy versions of L&H.

Hallmark treated the original movies of L&H like crap.
Post by Larc
Post by ScottO
My guess would be Harmon because didn't he assign the movie rights to
Hallmark?
Definitely Hallmark for sitting on the L&H films instead of having
them remastered and widely released.
What Hallmark did was very stupid from a business standpoint. They
were evidently holding onto the L&H trove to help their financial
numbers, but allowing the films to do no more than take up space
denied them many thousands of additional dollars they could have
netted. Making the material widely available would have created
additional demand. And additional demand would have increased the
value of Hallmark's L&H holdings.
If Hallmark had handled things correctly, release of L&H films by the
Kirch Group - if it had happened at all - would have created no more
than a footnote in the US.
But in the long run, I doubt either Hallmark or Harmon has done any
permanent damage to L&H.
Larc
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h***@netburner.net
2008-03-27 03:49:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jimmy Fin
Hallmark.
Harmon released his own crappy versions of L&H.
Hallmark treated the original movies of L&H like crap.
Post by Larc
Post by ScottO
My guess would be Harmon because didn't he assign the movie rights to
Hallmark?
Definitely Hallmark for sitting on the L&H films instead of having
them remastered and widely released.
What Hallmark did was very stupid from a business standpoint.  They
were evidently holding onto the L&H trove to help their financial
numbers, but allowing the films to do no more than take up space
denied them many thousands of additional dollars they could have
netted.  Making the material widely available would have created
additional demand.  And additional demand would have increased the
value of Hallmark's L&H holdings.
If Hallmark had handled things correctly, release of L&H films by the
Kirch Group - if it had happened at all - would have created no more
than a footnote in the US.
But in the long run, I doubt either Hallmark or Harmon has done any
permanent damage to L&H.
Larc
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The reason Hallmark held back the L&H films is because they were
inflating their value to inflate the value of their stock. If they
had released them it would have become evident that they had
overestimated their value.

RHI owns them now and for at least two years now they haven't done
anything with them. If it wasn't for that unconstitutional Bono law,
all pre 1933 L&H would be public domain now.

Tommie Hicks
m***@yahoo.com
2008-03-27 20:33:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@netburner.net
RHI owns them now and for at least two years now they haven't done
anything with them. If it wasn't for that unconstitutional Bono law,
all pre 1933 L&H would be public domain now.
Tommie Hicks
RHI hasn't done anything in terms of restoration or DVD releases, but
at least they have licensed them to TCM for 40 years. It's a start.

I'd say that even with the abuse and neglect L&H have suffered over
the past decade or two, thanks to the internet, they are probably more
popular than they have been in ages. YouTube and Bittorrent sites are
doing wonders for them.
s***@yahoo.com
2008-04-08 14:43:14 UTC
Permalink
Couple of points:

1) Concerning the Bono law. Yes, more things would be PD.... doesn't
mean more things would be PRESERVED for future generations. Often PD
films are the most abused since no one owns them they are cut up,
duped to no end and the original elements are destroyed, scattered to
the winds or just plan neglected. So GOOD ownership of these films
would not be a bad deal.... although I agree as far as the sound L&H
goes RHI then Hallmark and now back to RHI has not made the films
accessible as they should have. UCLA Film & Television Archive now
OWNS the nitrate elements (not the intellectual rights aka
exploitation rights)..... so if you want to support film preservation
and insure that there will be high quality source material around
whenever the exploitation rights free up then send your support ($$$)
to UCLA.

2) You must add Richard Feiner/Michael Agee to your poll for
consideration.
unknown
2008-04-09 02:05:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@yahoo.com
1) Concerning the Bono law. Yes, more things would be PD.... doesn't
mean more things would be PRESERVED for future generations. Often PD
films are the most abused since no one owns them they are cut up,
duped to no end and the original elements are destroyed, scattered to
the winds or just plan neglected.
I am more familiar with the audio recording industry, where there is a
tremendous amount of activity in restoring and making available recordings
that have gone PD everywhere except in the US; recordings that the majors
could release themselves IF they were interested.

"It's a Wonderful Life" gained a new lease on life itself after going PD.
There are many companies that do a wonderful job with PD films. And with
computing power increasing all the time, there _could_ be more restoration
of films from many people, of films that aren't seeing the light of day,
_if_ they were allowed to do it.

Yes, there are terrible versions of PD films on the market. But people only
willing to spend $1 for a DVD get what they pay for.
s***@yahoo.com
2008-04-10 03:52:17 UTC
Permalink
Big difference between audio and film both in how you restore them...
and how much it costs to do it.

First to restore audio you are primarily dealing witn re-recording,
scratch removal, etc. All things you must also do to restore a
film.... but a film also requires very expensive photo-chemical lab
work, pulling together various elements from all over the world, etc.
Much of what is considered "restored" is NOT but merely a video
transfer with some clean up so that the DVD will look good. To do
true preservation you MUST produce new film elements. As a
example.... all you L&H fans might want to ask if the silents have
been preserved for gnerations to come or merely just cleaned up on
video for immediate exploitation. If ony "restored" to a video format
what happens when the next format not compatible with the last comes
along.... will there be source material to go to?

Again about PD films.... yes if you want to get them out and seen
then, of course, the PD status is desirable. But if you want them
preserved then it gets a bit more iffy. Even if something is PD if
someone has really good pre-print they are going to hold on to it so
they can directly profit from their owning the physical property.
Also on the downside if a film goes PD but its pre-print elements
remain with a studio it is often inaccessible or even destroyed...
where as if they own it they are more likely to exploit (meaning
making it available) it. There is no simply answer to whether a film
being or going PD is a good thing or a bad thing. But, if there were
no hitches, no road blocks...... then wouldn't all pre-1923 films now
know to exist be available?
Eric Perlin
2008-04-11 11:08:59 UTC
Permalink
homesteader wrote:
} If it wasn't for that unconstitutional Bono law,
} all pre 1933 L&H would be public domain now.

On the whole, I think that would have been GREAT! "The Music Box" and "Pack Up
Your Troubles" would be available all over the place just like "Flying Deuces"
and "Utopia"!

Some argue that public domain status does not increase accessibility, yet there
are numerous good quality (along with equally numerous "watchable quality")
copies of "His Girl Friday" and "Night of the Living Dead" everywhere you look,
not only on home video but also on late night PBS TV broadcasts.

There are also numerous recorded performances of Beethoven's 5th Symphony
available. These also vary in quality somewhat, yet the composition is good
enough that it's actually hard to find a bad rendition of it. If Beethoven's
compositions were still under copyright, it would be much harder to find them.
Frank J. Lhota
2008-04-12 10:48:15 UTC
Permalink
... If it wasn't for that unconstitutional Bono law,
all pre 1933 L&H would be public domain now.
I'm not a fan of the Bono law either, but I fail to see how anything in
this law violates the constitution. On what basis do you say that this
law is unconstitutional?
--
"All things extant in this world,
Gods of Heaven, gods of Earth,
Let everything be as it should be;
Thus shall it be!"
- Magical chant from "Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi"

"Drizzle, Drazzle, Drozzle, Drome,
Time for this one to come home!"
- Mr. Wizard from "Tooter Turtle"
r***@yahoo.com
2008-04-15 03:35:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank J. Lhota
...  If it wasn't for that unconstitutional Bono law,
all pre 1933 L&H would be public domain now.
I'm not a fan of the Bono law either, but I fail to see how anything in
this law violates the constitution. On what basis do you say that this
law is unconstitutional?
Article 1, Section 8, Clause 8: To promote the Progress of Science and
useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors
the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

When the Supreme Court determined that the current law was
constitutional, they didn't consult me. But if they had, I would have
told them that 99 years is in no way "limited" and clearly the intent
of the clause was to let the authors and inventors profit from their
work and not their heirs and grand-heirs.

Rob "Chief Justice Roberts is Waiting on Line 2" Farr

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