Discussion:
The New "Babes In Toyland"
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Cubear
2007-10-19 18:00:33 UTC
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I am surprised nobody has commented on the new "Babes in Toyland" that
is part of the MGM Christmas Collection. People on other groups are
talking about it. Has anyone seen it? Any Comments? People are saying
it is the best version out there. Is it worth getting the whole
collection for. I already have 2 DVD versions of the film.
Ray Faiola
2007-10-22 14:16:47 UTC
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Yes, it is definitely worth getting. Although I would hope at some
point MGM would do a standalone release (instead of the film being
buried in a mediocre Holiday 3-pack).

The DVD features a new transfer from the Eastman House nitrate and is
100% complete, including scored MPDAA logo, roaring Lion, cave
sequence and original end title (with no superimposed credits). My
only complaint is that the soundtrack has been compressed and is
pretty much devoid of its original ambience. If you have the old Mark
56 soundtrack LP you know what the track SHOULD sound like. But hey,
we can't have EVERYTHING!

Seriously, though, this film has been treated as a weak sister for so
long it's time that it were celebrated as the unbridled (and
unmatched!) classic that it is.
n***@gmail.com
2007-10-22 16:21:01 UTC
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Post by Ray Faiola
The DVD features a new transfer from the Eastman House nitrate and is
100% complete, including scored MPDAA logo, roaring Lion, cave
sequence and original end title (with no superimposed credits).
What generation is the Eastman print? I understand it is not the
original camera negative, so I am wondering how the picture quality
compares to other recent DVD releases, such as the Legend version. Has
it been digitally cleaned up to remove dirt, spots, splices, etc.?

Shame about the bad sound, and that for a film filled with music!
Oldschool Marvel Fan
2007-10-22 21:08:43 UTC
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Post by Cubear
I am surprised nobody has commented on the new "Babes in Toyland" that
is part of the MGM Christmas Collection. People on other groups are
talking about it. Has anyone seen it? Any Comments? People are saying
it is the best version out there. Is it worth getting the whole
collection for. I already have 2 DVD versions of the film.
All I know is that by the 1990s rolled around, it seemed like WPIX in
NYC had it edited down to about 15 minutes, including two commercial
breaks. :-)
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The Oldschool Marvel Fans Yahoo Group - For Fans of the Marvel Age
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oldschool_marvel_fans/
Ray Faiola
2007-10-23 00:25:01 UTC
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The Eastman House nitrate is, I believe, a fine grain. It's the best
we will ever get. The Legend was a patchwork of the original Goldwyn
transfer of a few years ago and 16mm footage for the Cave scene. The
sound on the new MGM disc isn't "bad". It's just squeezed way too
tight to remove noise inherent to the variable density soundtrack.
L***@hotmail.com
2007-10-23 05:35:46 UTC
Permalink
I've got some grabs up (with comparison to the German disc) at
http://www.inthebalcony.com/shorts/
Miss Glamour
2007-10-23 22:05:32 UTC
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Big whoop.
Jim Reid
2007-10-23 22:44:38 UTC
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Post by Ray Faiola
The Eastman House nitrate is, I believe, a fine grain. It's the best
we will ever get. The Legend was a patchwork of the original Goldwyn
transfer of a few years ago and 16mm footage for the Cave scene. The
sound on the new MGM disc isn't "bad". It's just squeezed way too
tight to remove noise inherent to the variable density soundtrack.
Was the Eastman print part of the nitrate collection that MGM donated?
Ray Faiola
2007-10-24 00:41:18 UTC
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Post by Jim Reid
Was the Eastman print part of the nitrate collection that MGM donated?
That I don't know. They never had ownership.
Jim Reid
2007-10-24 01:38:08 UTC
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Post by Ray Faiola
Post by Jim Reid
Was the Eastman print part of the nitrate collection that MGM donated?
That I don't know. They never had ownership.
I just thought MGM might have a nitrate from the original 34 release
when they were the distributor. They sent a bunch of nitrate to the
Eastman house at some point from what I've heard. Didn't MGM own all
the Roach films they released until Roach bought them back in the
early 40s?
Ray Faiola
2007-10-25 10:47:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Reid
Post by Ray Faiola
Post by Jim Reid
Was the Eastman print part of the nitrate collection that MGM donated?
That I don't know. They never had ownership.
I just thought MGM might have a nitrate from the original 34 release
when they were the distributor. They sent a bunch of nitrate to the
Eastman house at some point from what I've heard. Didn't MGM own all
the Roach films they released until Roach bought them back in the
early 40s?
I think it was the reverse - Roach owed MGM money and transferred
ownership of BONNIE SCOTLAND, THE DEVIL'S BROTHER, PICK A STAR, and
MISTER CINDERELLA to Loews Inc.

BABES IN TOYLAND was sold to Boris Morros and William LeBaron in 1948
as they intended to remake the film. However, the Breen Office
condemned the new script (I've seen the memos) for containing elements
of incest and beastiality. So Morros and LeBaron (Federal Films)
decided to reissue the old picture and leased it to Robert Lippert.

You're probably right that the 1934 TOYLAND print was something in
MGM's vault and sent it to Eastman House. In fact, when I was
searching for the uncut version in 1991 (for a CBS/Fox project) it was
Dick May who finally pointed me to Eastman House. The closest I had
come up til then was the Auerbach print at the BFI. After confirming
that the Eastman House TOYLAND was the uncut version (since they
wouldn't ship nitrate and we didn't want to schlep up to Rochester,
they made us a 16mm pix & track neg of the first reel), CBS went about
licensing the picture from the owners - WPIX/Tribune. They were going
to release it along with all the Fox features. However, at the last
minute WPIX insisted we pay for colorization. CBS said "no", and WPIX
went to Goldwyn. But WPIX/Tribune had no idea that a complete print
even existed. They had 24 35mm prints of the Lippert reissue - some
foreign dubbed, but all edited. So you can thank CBS and (at the
time) the Grand Sheik of the NY Founding Tent of the Sons of the
Desert (which is the only reason I got involved with the home video
group since I'm at the Network) for unearthing the original magilla.
Scott MacGillivray
2007-11-08 19:59:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray Faiola
I think it was the reverse - Roach owed MGM money and transferred
ownership of BONNIE SCOTLAND, THE DEVIL'S BROTHER, PICK A STAR, and
MISTER CINDERELLA to Loews Inc.
BABES IN TOYLAND was sold to Boris Morros and William LeBaron in 1948
as they intended to remake the film... The closest I had
come up til then was the Auerbach print at the BFI.
Mr. Faiola is the Foremost Authority on the lineage of BABES IN
TOYLAND, so you're getting the straight stuff here.

I just have a couple of minor clarifications to Ray's post. The
ownership deal was the other way around: M-G-M owed Hal Roach money
and Roach sued to get it. Rather than admitting any fault, the studio
paid Roach off, and it went on the books as a sales transaction
involving several Roach features. When THE DEVIL'S BROTHER was
returned to M-G-M, the studio reissued it in Europe (as FRA DIAVOLO,
in 1948), but did not revive it in America (Bob Savini of Astor
Pictures took that initiative, also in '48).

Boris Morros and William LeBaron bought the rights to BABES IN TOYLAND
in 1945 and had originally planned to produce a color film using
George Pal's stop-motion techniques. The "Auerbach" Ray mentions is
motion picture broker Joe Auerbach, who reissued BABES IN TOYLAND
outside the United States in 1948, under the title REVENGE IS SWEET.
TOYLAND didn't return to American screens until 1950, under the
auspices of Robert L. Lippert.

These are only details; the chronology of TOYLAND is as Ray reports it.
L***@hotmail.com
2007-11-09 04:57:18 UTC
Permalink
And of course, REVENGE IS SWEET is the title given the film on the
German DVD.
Eric Perlin
2007-11-12 21:18:15 UTC
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Scott MacGillivray wrote:

} [snip] The "Auerbach" Ray mentions is motion picture
} broker Joe Auerbach, who reissued BABES IN TOYLAND
} outside the United States in 1948, under the title
} REVENGE IS SWEET.

Could anyone have possibly come up with a worse title than that?
Frank J. Lhota
2007-11-13 01:30:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Perlin
} [snip] The "Auerbach" Ray mentions is motion picture
} broker Joe Auerbach, who reissued BABES IN TOYLAND
} outside the United States in 1948, under the title
} REVENGE IS SWEET.
Could anyone have possibly come up with a worse title than that?
Sure:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057181/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059637/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065760/
--
"All things extant in this world,
Gods of Heaven, gods of Earth,
Let everything be as it should be;
Thus shall it be!"
- Magical chant from "Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi"

"Drizzle, Drazzle, Drozzle, Drome,
Time for this one to come home!"
- Mr. Wizard from "Tooter Turtle"
shaynes
2007-11-13 21:32:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank J. Lhota
Post by Eric Perlin
Could anyone have possibly come up with a worse title than that?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057181/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059637/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065760/
and of course:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064123/
Frank J. Lhota
2007-11-14 02:37:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by shaynes
Post by Frank J. Lhota
Post by Eric Perlin
Could anyone have possibly come up with a worse title than that?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057181/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059637/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065760/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064123/
And let's not forget

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062067/
--
"All things extant in this world,
Gods of Heaven, gods of Earth,
Let everything be as it should be;
Thus shall it be!"
- Magical chant from "Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi"

"Drizzle, Drazzle, Drozzle, Drome,
Time for this one to come home!"
- Mr. Wizard from "Tooter Turtle"
Eric Perlin
2007-11-17 05:13:22 UTC
Permalink
What I _meant_ was, could there be a worse title than "Revenge is Sweet" for
that particular film? That is, the L&H version of "Babes in Toyland."

If "Babes in Toyland" and "March of the Wooden Soldiers" are already taken, I
think most of us could have thought up a better alternate title for that film.

How about "The Big Shoe Mortgage" or "Stannie Dum and Ollie Dee"? Or simply
"Laurel and Hardy in Toyland"?
Frank J. Lhota
2007-11-17 13:39:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Perlin
What I _meant_ was, could there be a worse title than "Revenge is Sweet" for
that particular film? That is, the L&H version of "Babes in Toyland."
If "Babes in Toyland" and "March of the Wooden Soldiers" are already taken, I
think most of us could have thought up a better alternate title for that film.
How about "The Big Shoe Mortgage" or "Stannie Dum and Ollie Dee"? Or simply
"Laurel and Hardy in Toyland"?
I suspected that you might be what you meant, but the topic of bad film
titles in general was too fun to resist! ;-)

But getting back the "Babes in Toyland", you're absolutely right that
that "Revenge is Sweet" is a terrible alternative title. The film's
heroes motives are purer than revenge, and hence this title gives an
unnecessarily negative impression of the film.
--
"All things extant in this world,
Gods of Heaven, gods of Earth,
Let everything be as it should be;
Thus shall it be!"
- Magical chant from "Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi"

"Drizzle, Drazzle, Drozzle, Drome,
Time for this one to come home!"
- Mr. Wizard from "Tooter Turtle"
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