Laurel and Hardy on HDTV

[The Space Boss]

Well guys.. I finally broke down and bought an HDTV today, just a 20
inch model to play my PS3 games on.

I thought I'd watch an Laurel and Hardy DVD on it, just for grins. So
I found my Hallmark DVD and watched THE MUSIC BOX. I didn't really
think it would make too much difference, but I was wrong.

On HDTV, it's a whole new ball game. You will see things you've never
seen before, and notice little things you've never noticed before. It
stretched the film out to fit the entire screen, and it looked GREAT,
not distorted in the least - not sure if all DVD players will do this
or not, I have my PS3 set that ratio though. It's like immersing
yourself in the scene.. and that's just watching it on a 20 inch, mind
you. I can't imagine how cool this must be on a 60+ inch.. I know it
must sound kind of silly.. but it feels like watching the film for the
first time even though I've seen it it seems like a hundred.

If you thought the Kinowelt DVD's looked so great on your regular TV,
I can assure you - you haven't seen anything yet until you see it on
HDTV. I'm surprised I'm so impressed with this actually, I've never
had much interest before.

[Mister Levity]

I've owned a 42 inch HDTV LCD widescreen for quite a few years.
Watching the Kinowelt Laurel and Hardy DVDs as well as Charlie
Chaplin, Buster Keaton, Roscoe Arbuckle, etc on the Wide Zoom screen
mode is an incredible experiance. Yes, like seeing the films for the
first time. Only this time around in pristine crystal clearity and
imporoved sound quality. Fantastic.

[Walter Traprock]

Post by Mister Levity
I've owned a 42 inch HDTV LCD widescreen for quite a few years.
Watching the Kinowelt Laurel and Hardy DVDs as well as Charlie
Chaplin, Buster Keaton, Roscoe Arbuckle, etc on the Wide Zoom screen
mode is an incredible experiance.

Incredibly BAD! How could anyone watch a DVD in distortion-vision!

Post by Mister Levity
Yes, like seeing the films for the
first time. Only this time around in pristine crystal clearity and
imporoved sound quality. Fantastic.

Synthetic surround, synthetic stereo, etc., is NOT an improvement!

Thanks, guys, for helping point out that "HDTV" is not good!

[Kimba W. Lion]

Post by Walter Traprock
Incredibly BAD! How could anyone watch a DVD in distortion-vision!

Stretch mode is unwatchable, IMO. Zoom mode may be acceptable, depending on
how the original framing was done. But you know you're losing part of the
picture. 4:3 mode is just fine, preserving the original look of the film, and
--depending on the DVD player and TV set-- restoring the edges of the picture
normally lost to overscan.

Post by Walter Traprock
Synthetic surround, synthetic stereo, etc., is NOT an improvement!

Who said anything about that!?

[Mister Levity]

Looks good to me. My HDTV widescreen does not distort the image in
wide zoom mode. I really don't care that a small part if the image is
cropped on the far outer edges. No big deal at all. Very satisfied
with mine .

[shaynes]

Post by Mister Levity
Looks good to me. My HDTV widescreen does not distort the image in
wide zoom mode. I really don't care that a small part if the image is
cropped on the far outer edges. No big deal at all. Very satisfied
with mine .

There may be some communication problems going on here, but here is
the bottom line:

The standard old-fashioned TV screen was 4 by 3 and the new HDTV
widescreen is 16 by 9; to make it easier to compare let's get the left
side of this math equal by expressing the old-fashined TV in "by 9"
terms - multiply both sides of that ratio by three and you get 12 by
9. Think of it this way - the height of the picutre is fine but the
width will only fill 75% of the screen (12 out of 16) width leaving
12.5% blank (gray or black or whatever) on each side of your wide
screen TV.

If you Zoom in to make the 12 fit the 16, the 9 portion of the
standard aspect picture will also increase, and if centered part of
the top and the bottom of the original image will "fall off" of the
widescreen display, ultimately losing 12.5% from both the top and
bottom of the image. It's like the old pan and scan for widescreen,
but now instead of losing part of the sides of the image you lose part
of the top and bottom, The ONLY way to make a widescreen image fit a
standard monitor OR VICE VERSA involves EITHER distorting the image
horizontally or vertically OR croppinig off the sides or top/bottom of
the pictore OR some combination of distortion and cropping.

Distorting or cropping the image should be rejected by anyone wanting
to experience the original intentions of the filmmakers - if you can't
live with NOT filling up whatever screen you have, perhaps you should
consider video front projection with an adjustable screen.

Just my opinion - if you are happy with it, fine - but you shouldn't
think that you are not distorting or deleting part of the original
image.

[Super Stupid]

Dem kolourized vershunz look bootiful un doze 62 enchers wydescreenz
hydephinishun teevees!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! et bryngs
owt da reel Larel an Hawdy klazzik komedee
geeniuzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dey reelee
mayke mee laff moor dan ennyting un da
wydescreeenzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Walter Traprock]

Post by Super Stupid
Dem kolourized vershunz look bootiful un doze 62 enchers wydescreenz
hydephinishun teevees!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! et bryngs
owt da reel Larel an Hawdy klazzik komedee
geeniuzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dey reelee
mayke mee laff moor dan ennyting un da
wydescreeenzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They ought to come out with a TV that "auto-colorizes", that way,
it may look strange, but it would still be color, and you could
"stretch" the picture and still convert mono to surround sound! If
it's a silent film, you could put on some NWA, or moroder or something,
to fully update the picture and make it look like it was filmed
yesterday!

[The Space Boss]

Post by Walter Traprock
They ought to come out with a TV that "auto-colorizes", that way,
it may look strange, but it would still be color, and you could
"stretch" the picture and still convert mono to surround sound! If
it's a silent film, you could put on some NWA, or moroder or something,
to fully update the picture and make it look like it was filmed
yesterday!

NWA is SOOOOOOOOO 1989...

Walter can I assume you're against HDTV?

[Brian]

For all the HDTV experts out there, does "windowboxing" old films for
dvd (possibly for HD perhaps) assist in giving 4:3 aspect ratios added
scope on 16:9 monitors?

I know Criterion have released a number of restored films in recent
years in this format (notably "The Seven Samurai") and have wondered
why this is the case.

Also there's an urban myth (which maybe true) that the reason why
broadcast televsion networks who have converted to digital (mainly
based in Europe and Australia) don't broadcast any old movies or tv
series is that constant viewing of shows will burn a 4:3 frame into
16:9 plasma screens -- and that the studios are encouraging this
boycott of sorts so that fans who want to see these movies and shows
will have to buy them to ever see them (and in doing so, not make the
tv networks pay out huge damages to people with permanent 4:3 lines on
their HD screens)

[Kimba W. Lion]

Post by Brian
For all the HDTV experts out there, does "windowboxing" old films for
dvd (possibly for HD perhaps) assist in giving 4:3 aspect ratios added
scope on 16:9 monitors?

Windowboxing (creating a black border around all 4 sides of the image)
prevents parts of the picture being lost to overscan in the display. CRTs
generally suffer from overscan; there is no good reason why LCDs and plasma
displays should.

What's weird is that overscan is designed into at least some displays when
they are presented with 4:3 material--the display omits part the left and
right sides of the image to exactly simulate a 4:3 picture.

I have had 2 DVD players that can overcome this limitation, by
pre-compensating the 4:3 picture on disc for a display's 16:9 mode. This
allows the display to present the entire image that is on the DVD--and
actually, so-called 4:3 (or 1.33:1) material is recorded on DVD as 1.5:1!
The extra picture width includes area that is designed to be lopped off by
display overscan.

You can see the same 1.5:1 picture ratio when standard-def shows are
broadcast on high-def channels, like when Fox shows Family Guy. It's not
quite 16:9 (1.78:1), but it's fairly close to the "widescreen experience".

Now... Since old movies were made in Academy Ratio, 1.375:1, obviously
there's a mismatch, and if the picture fills a 1.5:1 frame, portions of the
top and bottom must be lost. And when viewed on a 1.33:1 display, portions
of the sides are lost, as well.

Windowboxing attempts to sidestep the whole confusing mess and make sure
you get the whole picture that's on the film, and it's up to you to figure
out how to make it fill your display.

Post by Brian
I know Criterion have released a number of restored films in recent
years in this format (notably "The Seven Samurai") and have wondered
why this is the case.

I presume Kurosawa's composition for the movie screen uses every inch of
the picture and it was decided that the movie would suffer if parts were
lost to overscan.

Post by Brian
Also there's an urban myth (which maybe true) that the reason why
broadcast televsion networks who have converted to digital (mainly
based in Europe and Australia) don't broadcast any old movies or tv
series is that constant viewing of shows will burn a 4:3 frame into
16:9 plasma screens -- and that the studios are encouraging this
boycott of sorts so that fans who want to see these movies and shows
will have to buy them to ever see them (and in doing so, not make the
tv networks pay out huge damages to people with permanent 4:3 lines on
their HD screens)

To my knowledge, plasma displays have anti-burn-in measures built in to
them. It seems to me that high-def broadcasters would want to avoid 4:3
programming to avoid complaints about black bars on the sides of the
picture--like people complained about black bars on the tops and bottoms of
the picture when letterboxed material was shown on standard TVs. (Two of my
local TV stations go so far as to stretch 4:3 material on their high-def
channels so that it fills the screen--and looks horrible. I'm not
completely sure they're doing it deliberately.)

[Walter Traprock]

Post by The Space Boss
On HDTV, it's a whole new ball game. You will see things you've never
seen before, and notice little things you've never noticed before. It
stretched the film out to fit the entire screen, and it looked GREAT,
not distorted in the least

Yeah right, "stretched" screen is the worst way to watch any DVD!

[ScottO]

Post by The Space Boss
Well guys.. I finally broke down and bought an HDTV today, just a 20
inch model to play my PS3 games on.
I thought I'd watch an Laurel and Hardy DVD on it, just for grins. So
I found my Hallmark DVD and watched THE MUSIC BOX. I didn't really
think it would make too much difference, but I was wrong.
On HDTV, it's a whole new ball game. You will see things you've never
seen before, and notice little things you've never noticed before.

You realize your DVD's aren't HD, right? High-Def DVD's, which are a whole
new format and require a different DVD player, are just now coming out.

ScottO.

[The Space Boss]

Post by ScottO

Post by The Space Boss
Well guys.. I finally broke down and bought an HDTV today, just a 20
inch model to play my PS3 games on.
I thought I'd watch an Laurel and Hardy DVD on it, just for grins. So
I found my Hallmark DVD and watched THE MUSIC BOX. I didn't really
think it would make too much difference, but I was wrong.
On HDTV, it's a whole new ball game. You will see things you've never
seen before, and notice little things you've never noticed before.

You realize your DVD's aren't HD, right? High-Def DVD's, which are a whole
new format and require a different DVD player, are just now coming out.
ScottO.

YEP. I have a BLU RAY player (PS3). That is the VERY best.

[ScottO]

.

Post by The Space Boss

Post by ScottO
You realize your DVD's aren't HD, right? High-Def DVD's, which are a whole
new format and require a different DVD player, are just now coming out.
ScottO.

YEP. I have a BLU RAY player (PS3). That is the VERY best.

Okay, you're 2/3 of the way there. Your TV and DVD player are HD, but are
your DVDs? I doubt there are any HD L&H DVD's out there, but I'd like to be
mistaken.

ScottO.

[The Space Boss]

Post by ScottO
.

Post by The Space Boss

Post by ScottO
You realize your DVD's aren't HD, right? High-Def DVD's, which are a whole
new format and require a different DVD player, are just now coming out.
ScottO.

YEP. I have a BLU RAY player (PS3). That is the VERY best.

Okay, you're 2/3 of the way there. Your TV and DVD player are HD, but are
your DVDs? I doubt there are any HD L&H DVD's out there, but I'd like to be
mistaken.
ScottO.

Not yet. Companies are merely "dipping thier toes" into Blu Ray and HD-
DVD.

DVD is the dominant format, and just may continue to be for the
forseeable future. They may not look as good as HD-DVD (which has been
criticized for not looking that much better than DVD), but DVD's look
GREAT in HD.

[Ken Doyle]

Isn't Ollie fat enough already?

Ken D.

Post by The Space Boss
Well guys.. I finally broke down and bought an HDTV today, just a 20
inch model to play my PS3 games on.
I thought I'd watch an Laurel and Hardy DVD on it, just for grins. So
I found my Hallmark DVD and watched THE MUSIC BOX. I didn't really
think it would make too much difference, but I was wrong.
On HDTV, it's a whole new ball game. You will see things you've never
seen before, and notice little things you've never noticed before. It
stretched the film out to fit the entire screen, and it looked GREAT,
not distorted in the least - not sure if all DVD players will do this
or not, I have my PS3 set that ratio though. It's like immersing
yourself in the scene.. and that's just watching it on a 20 inch, mind
you. I can't imagine how cool this must be on a 60+ inch.. I know it
must sound kind of silly.. but it feels like watching the film for the
first time even though I've seen it it seems like a hundred.
If you thought the Kinowelt DVD's looked so great on your regular TV,
I can assure you - you haven't seen anything yet until you see it on
HDTV. I'm surprised I'm so impressed with this actually, I've never
had much interest before.